Riviera Windlass Project

[SunsetSteve]

This is the front of the salon area in the Riv. The anchor locker lies just behind the carpetted area below the hatch. But does anyone know what lies below he carpetted horizontal ledge above the backrest cushion and below the vertical carpetting beneath the hatch? Might that be a possible location for the the windlass electricals (and even a battery if that is the chosen power solution)? Maybe possible to vent the battery to the anchor locker from there. (??)

[SunsetSteve]

https://www.pbo.co.uk/expert-advice/how-and-where-to-install-a-new-windlass-battery-on-your-boat-63364

See the final section, on placing the WL dedicated battery up front near the WL.
BUT - what if you bought a second charger and put it up near the WL battery. Would you then eliminate the heavy 12VDC cabling and just go with a simple 110VAC wire to the nearest 110V receptacle? You lose the benefit of alternator charging to assist the lift, but is that fatal for day-trips?

Thoughts?

[Uncle Mike]

Just got a Lewmar 1000 installed on my Riviera 1989. I new dedicated Lewmar breaker was installed on the left side of the electric panel and power taken directly from the panel. I could get some pictures this weekend if needed!

[km1125]

I'll have to respond back later to this... I don't have enough time right now to comment thoroughly on that article but see a few things I'd like to highlight there.

[SunsetSteve]

Source of the post Just got a Lewmar 1000 installed on my Riviera 1989. I new dedicated Lewmar breaker was installed on the left side of the electric panel and power taken directly from the panel. I could get some pictures this weekend if needed!

That would be very much appreciated. Aso - did you get the vertical or horizontal Lewmar windlass? Thanks!

[Uncle Mike]

I will get you some pictures this weekend. I got the horizontal model but now that it's install, there is enough room that I could have select the vertical one;)

[SunsetSteve]

Looking forward to pics!

[SunsetSteve]

Source of the post I'll have to respond back later to this... I don't have enough time right now to comment thoroughly on that article but see a few things I'd like to highlight there.

And looking fwd to your comments on the article, KM.

[SunsetSteve]

This raises a concern of mine. The batteries are located in a wooden box beneath the step into the aft cabin, where we sleep. I assume that is the original location. Is this also the case with all other Riv 28s? I do not preceive any provision for ventilation from the battery box, located as it is within the sleeping quarters

[km1125]

Source of the post

Source of the post I'll have to respond back later to this... I don't have enough time right now to comment thoroughly on that article but see a few things I'd like to highlight there.

And looking fwd to your comments on the article, KM.

OK, sorry for not revisiting this earlier. I threw out the "adding a dedicated battery up front for the windlass" as something you could consider if there were issues getting the wiring in place, but I'm not really recommending that, especially on a 28' boat. I think it might be an unnecessary complication. On longer boats where the wiring could be onerous, it might be more applicable. You really need to figure out what your limitations are on the boat. Is it really impossible to run the correct ga wire from the windlass back to the start or house battery? That's the simpliest solution, but you have some options there was well. If you can run PART of the run in a larger gauge wire (perhaps from the battery to a bulkhead more forward), you can put a terminal post there and migrate to a smaller wire for the rest of the trip. That might limit the voltage drop to a reasonable amount and also allow you to use a smaller ga wire for the "hard to route" part.

Now, specific comments on the article:

3. What cable size should I use for the 5m run from domestic bank to the windlass battery and on to the windlass?

Answer: Although in theory smaller diameter wire could be used exclusively for charging an isolated windlass battery, if all three are connected in parallel then the required power will be drawn from both the windlass and domestic batteries (assisted by the engine alternator if running). So, the current flowing through the adjoining cable will be the same as if it were coming directly from the domestics and should,therefore, be sized exactly as if you wired it directly from the domestic bank to the windlass. That would most likely be at least 50mm squared cross-section for a 1,000W windlass.

In here they're talking about a dedicated windlass battery and some wiring to recharge that battery from the engines. What they are suggesting is absurd, to size the wire according to the full load of the windlass. That's not the purpose of the wire. It is there just to recharge the windlass battery. While the windlass is in use, if the wire is sized appropriately then there would be sufficient voltage drop so that the bulk of the current comes from the windlass battery. It would be supplemented with some current from the engine alternator, but that should be a fraction of the total draw.

Later, they write:

If wired like this it will also draw power from the starter battery when operating, but only if the VSR is activated and this can only happen if the engine is running (a must for long anchor hauls), so it can never be flattened in the process.

The amount of power the windlass is drawing from any battery is actually pretty small. That Lewmar noted in an earlier thread had a typical draw of 50A. If you ran it for three minutes, at 100ft/min, then you would lift 300' of line. Even if it was using 50A the whole time that'd be 2.5 amp-hours out of the battery. Even a small powersports battery could handle that without a strain. It's a good idea to run the engine while you're hauling anchor, but only because once that anchor is cut loose from the bottom you're adrift and you might need the engine to navigate. It should not be an issue for "flattening the battery" unless that's the ONLY battery you have aboard!

In several places in the article, they imply (or even say) that you need to use a "starting" battery instead of a dual-use or deep-cycle. This is also pretty absurd, especially in your case. If the max amp draw of the windlass is ~80A, that's a pretty small draw for any "full size" battery (group 27, 29, 31,etc). There are PLENTY of deep cycle and dual-use batteries that can handle an 80A load, most particularly from things like inverters. It's the "hundreds of amps" loads like you see from engine starting and maybe bow thrusters where the battery type makes a difference.

Down near the end of the article, they write:

Apart from the downside of adding weight to the bows of the boat, you might think that installing a dedicated battery close to the windlass is the obvious answer and would allow you to use much smaller cables. However, the smaller the cables the higher the voltage drop, so this isn’t necessarily the solution.

If you simply run small cables from the domestic bank to the windlass battery to charge it, there’s a good chance it’ll run flat and then these thin cables will melt under the high current being drawn from the domestics to run the windlass. For this reason, the cables from the domestics to the windlass battery forward will need to be at least as thick as they would if directly wired – rendering the object of the exercise pointless!

Again, the idea with the smaller cable size is just to RECHARGE the windlass battery, not run the windlass. It's OK to have LOTS of voltage drop in this circuit when the windlass is running, and the windlass will get the bulk of its current from the windlass battery. The voltage drop is actually one of the current-limiting devices in the circuit. That line about them "melting under the high current" is also absurd because it implies that there is no circuit protection there either, that would prevent the load being drawn on those wires from exceeding the wire rating. There would/should be circuit protection on both ends of such a wire as it is connected to two different power sources.