Experience with fiberglass repairs on bow pulpit

[tracey_ash]

Hi there! New to the forum. We're looking to purchase a 1988 3807 Aft. We have an offer on one but survey isn't going so well and I'm heartsick. Improper blocking has caused damage to the keel ($4k repair) and there is worse damage on the bow pulpit area including area around windlas and deck, estimating $10-$15k to repair.
Trying to see if buyer will reduce price to absorb some of cost... if we proceed. We're new to this and not sure if this is normal stuff for a boat of this age.wondering if the repair will make it look as good as new or should we walk and keep looking.
Any advice?

[Viper]

Welcome aboard.

Over time, higher moisture readings around the bow pulpit, stanchion bases, windlass, etc. is pretty common in all brands/models. This doesn't mean that a re-core is required, it depends on its condition. What kind of damage are you talking about in this area? Has a core sample been taken? If the keel was damaged due to improper blocking, why is the marina not repairing it at their expense?

Whether everything will look as good as new after the repairs will depend on how good the fiberglass technician is.

[nightsky]

Hello and welcome. You say you are heartsick over this, that suggests that you could make the mistake of making an emotional decision. That does not bode well for a buyer. If there was keel damage due to poor blocking, then the current owner of this vessel should deal with that through his insurance prior to the sale. Add to that the pulpit area repair, I would not proceed with this boat. Just my 2 cents. Good luck with what you decide.

[bud37]

Have to agree with the above posts, unless you are buying this for very cheap and even then ? Chances are the estimates you have will more than double and with the extra things that always crop up, well .....be very careful, is it your surveyor or the brokers ?

[km1125]

I'm curious what the keel damage is. On my 3607 the last 2' or so of the keel is thin and hollow and definitely not structural. For the first 15 years of owning the boat and having it blocked up for winter, this was never an issue. Then one year they put blocks right under this section and cracked it. The marina took care of the repair. Once they were done it was hard to tell where they did the repair and that was before the bottom paint.

[Viper]

Moisture readings and their consequences are subjective unless you actually probe below the skin and check the core. Mine had so called "higher than normal moisture readings" around the pulpit and more so around the windlass which I expect from every boat of this vintage and even some newer ones. This didn't scare me so after I bought the boat, I pulled the windlass to check the opening and it wasn't bad at all. I sealed the opening and left the rest alone. I bet it'll be fine for another 20 years. Yours will depend on its actual condition but at the very least, everything should be re-bedded if it's determined not to be that bad.

I wouldn't right it off without more information. Unless a proper assessment has been done first, everything is speculation at this point. Who gave you these dollar figures, the surveyor or did a qualified fiberglass technician do some probing and give you the price based on his findings?

Again, the keel damage should not be yours or the current owner's responsibility, it should be remedied by the people that blocked it incorrectly.

[tracey_ash]

Thank you for all your input. We received a quote from the broker's service department for repairs, which btw, we had to pay $157 for them to send a tech over to inspect and evaluate.
The asking price on this boat is $44,900
None of this was disclosed, we observed the keel damage caused by poor blocking - surveyor confirmed.
Here is the description of the needed repairs
$3,811.50---REPAIR THREE (3) LARGE CRACKED AREAS ON THE LAST 3' OF THE KEEL KEEL IS DRIPPING WATER)]FEW FEET FORWARD * OF THIS AND THE SPOT FORWARD OF THAT ONLY PER SURVEYOR. GRIND OPEN AND DRILL HOLES TO ALLOW WATER TO ESCAPE, LET DRY. LAY UP WITH NEW GLASS, GRIND, FAIR, APPLY BARRIER COAT AND BOTTOM PAINT, WILL NEED TO PUT BACKING INSIDE KEEL FOR ADDITIONAL SUPPORT.

* I believe this is a copy and paste from quote on repair given to original owner, we discovered that he had asked for this in 2013. This boat has not been in the water for two years!

$12,075.00 ($10,500 Labor)--- HALF OF THE BOW PULPIT IS ROTTEN.THE DECK UNDER AND THE PORT AND STARBOARD SIDES ARE BAD. INSPECTED THE ANCHOR LOCKER THROUGH THE FORWARD-BERTH ACCESS. UNDERSIDE OF THE DECK IS ALSO BAD. DECK WILL NEED TO BE CUT OUT AND REPLACED. AT LEAST HALF OF THE BOW PULPIT WILL NEED TO BE REPLACED. THE WINDLASS WILL NEED REMOVED AND INSTALLED. WIRES/HOSED IN THE ANCHOR LOCKER NEED REMOVED AND INSTALLED. WILL NOT KNOW UNTIL OPENED UP THE EXACT AREA THAT WILL NEED REMOVED. DECK IS MULTIPLE LAYERS OF PLYWOOD, BOW PULPIT IS PLYWOOD.

TOTAL ESTIMATE --- $17,053.10

We have spent $1000 just on inspections, have not completed the survey.
Seller has come down to $40k but that was before all this was revealed and cannot afford / unwilling to come off his price (underwater?)
We are walking away from this beauty
http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1988-carver-38-102745902
Interested to hear if this kind of damage is typical in this age / model Carver? Is this normal repair cost?

[bud37]

Well, I think it is a good move on your part, regardless of all the details it just sounds like it might be worse.There was a boat a few years back that had some bleeding in the keel, they drilled holes to drain , then vacuumed it, then opened it up to reveal the foam,then finally had to scarf out the foam, dry it out then replace foam and close up...took months and that was in the spring.....done right but still.

We walked from one boat as surveyor found it to be a sponge ( stringers and rudder supports) and that was after me crawling around on deck for hours with a moisture meter , so you can never tell with out having your own survey guy to help you thru the purchase, money well spent actually. That said most all boats of that age and newer will have moisture somewhere, that is where the expert opinion comes into play so you make a good decision that is not based on a knee jerk reaction. One last thought, remember in any boat purchase think about what the boat will be worth two years down the road, even one year if things turn and you have to sell. Good luck on your search.....

[tomschauer]

This 38 looks to be in really nice condition for an '88. Sorry to hear of the potential problems. If the owner agrees to have the boat repaired, maybe you could consider the purchase after the repairs are completed. But I believe the asking price is near the top of a good condition 38 of that year so I believe your walk away is the best choice.

[Viper]

I agree. I don't think the price is reflective of the repairs she needs. If the seller doesn't agree to move on the price based on needed repairs, he'll likely go through this again with the next interested party. Eventually he'll come to realize that the amount he's hoping to get out of it will be quickly eroded by other expenses such as slip fees, insurance, maintenance, etc.

Don't consider a deal where the seller has the repairs done for you as part of the deal. Unless you absolutely trust that the fiberglass tech will not budge on his quality of workmanship and won't let the seller dictate how the repair is done, take the discount and hire someone yourself that you know won't cut corners.

BTW, with the proper equipment, it shouldn't take a whole season for an area to dry out. If they vacuum bag the area, it'll dry out in no time.