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VHF Radio issues

Discussion of radars, GPS, autopilots, stereos and TV's. Also iPad and other mobile navigation devices.
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RGrew176
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Re: VHF Radio issues

Postby RGrew176 » May 8th, 2020, 1:00 am

When I bought my Carver in 2015 it had a cheaper antenna. One of the first things I did was to replace the VHF with a new unit that I could program my MMSI number into. I also upgraded my antenna. I chose this one:

https://www.westmarine.com/buy/shakespe ... 3041665ac0

The old antenna only picked up 3 of the 10 weather channels. The new antenna picks up 9 of 10 and the range and reception is really good. I can listen in to radio traffic 35 to 40 miles away. I have transmitted myself over 20. A good radio and antenna is the best thing I can do for my safety IMO. You never know when you might need it.
Rick Grew

2022 Stingray 182 SC

2004 Past Commodore
West River Yacht & Cruising Club

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Re: VHF Radio issues

Postby ColRon » May 8th, 2020, 5:28 pm

Viper,

That was a very good explanation! :clap: I had been thinking, "how can I explain radio wave propagation theory so that the average Joe understands" when it comes to selecting an antenna. I have a tendency to overthink things, but your explanation was Excellent! :worthy:
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Re: VHF Radio issues

Postby ColRon » May 8th, 2020, 5:53 pm

Rick, I am right there with you, I can live without my radar, chart plotter, and AIS receiver, but I cannot live with out my radio. It's our lifeline if you ever have an emergency. Buy the best radio and antenna you can afford.
Ron
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Re: VHF Radio issues

Postby Viper » May 8th, 2020, 6:39 pm

ColRon wrote:Source of the post Viper,

That was a very good explanation! :clap: I had been thinking, "how can I explain radio wave propagation theory so that the average Joe understands" when it comes to selecting an antenna. I have a tendency to overthink things, but your explanation was Excellent! :worthy:

Thanks Ron. I was trying to think of a way to describe the patterns of distribution but couldn't think of an analogy. The 3dB pattern could be likened to a big ball in each direction or an area lit up by a regular light bulb in all directions. Covers an area around you very well. The 6dB pattern is more of a stretched out tear drop or flood light that is more focused and extends out much further than the 3dB ball pattern. The 9dB pattern is much like the 6dB but much more focused and longer such as a spot light.

Each has its pros and cons. As you can imagine by the analogy above, one pattern may be better at communicating with someone over the other depending on distance. When I mentioned above that I had a 25' 9dB on a previous boat, I also had a 3 foot 3dB unit mounted on top of an extension whip so both were the same height port and starboard. This not only gave the vessel a symmetrical look, it allowed me to communicate better with vessels that were much closer which the 9dB unit would just shoot right over. I could still communicate with them but it was a much better signal with the 3dB unit at that close a range. A 6dB unit on its own topped it off for more mid range communications though I found myself using the other two more often. All were selected with a switch.

BTW, a lot of people say that there's very little use for VHF these days with the advent of cell phones and the fact that everyone has them on board now but you have to remember that in an emergency on the water, it's a VHF call that gets the Coast Guard's attention right away, and the only way of getting in touch with other vessels in the area of an emergency that you won't have phone numbers for...dah :confused:
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Re: VHF Radio issues

Postby ColRon » May 8th, 2020, 8:48 pm

Viper, you are right on target. And while a cell phone may have a gps location, that 911 call is going to go to a call center, where they have to determine who to contact. Those may not necessarily be the best people or even the closest. Last year, here on KY Lake a 20 something foot run about struck a shoal and knocked the outdrives off the boat. They spent hours waiting for someone to find them even after their call on their cell phone. Luckily no one was hurt but they were stranded basically in the middle of the lake and no VHF.

One of the best developments in my opinion that’s been made in VHF radios in recent years is the DSC calling. All you have to do is hit an emergency button and any radio in range gets you call. But I’m amazed at the number of people who don’t connect it to thier GPS and get an MMSI number.
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Re: VHF Radio issues

Postby Viper » May 8th, 2020, 9:28 pm

You're correct Ron, I run into a lot of newer units with DSC that aren't hooked up to GPS. It's just a little longer hook up time and considering the safety benefit, I can't figure out why people wouldn't go the extra step. The good thing is that more and more radios have built-in GPS.
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Re: VHF Radio issues

Postby Tireless » May 9th, 2020, 10:30 am

This is all very good information about VHF radios/antennas, it explains a lot and is very helpful.

The cell phone vs. VHF issue is a simple one for me. I was crossing Georgian Bay and doing an 80+ mile run from Tobermory to Killbear Marina. It would be fair to say that the wind/water was very heavy ( 8-10 feet) from the south and striking the Starboard aft of the boat. It was fine when I started the crossing. I had my dinghy up on the platform on Weaver Davits and the waves were periodically hitting it with substantial force off the side of the boat. Next thing you know, the dinghy was off the back of the boat, floating upside down, hanging off the swim platform buy a ratchet strap. The pad/yoke had pulled off. :angry: The decision was, do I screw around in those conditions and risk falling off the back of the boat to recover it or drive on. I drove on, hoping it would hold on but, it finally broke free, to be found on the rocks two weeks later in the Bustard Islands by a looper. :usa:

I notified coast guard immediately with my VHF and the signal was very weak, however I was able to report the loss. They asked me to contact them by cell phone because we were having difficulty communicating. There was no cell phone signal. So, if not for the VHF and if I was in real trouble, I would have been hooped. I called them when I got to port with further details. There were a number of dinghy's floating out there apparently that day.

This is why I am considering getting a new antenna. I don't think it is the radio as it was brand new 5 years ago and a quality brand. I am considering getting a SWR Meter to check the "gain" between the radio and the antenna.

So, it's a long story to get a point across :popcorn: , but this is why a cell phone is okay when you're near cell towers, but the VHF is a real must IMHO. On your radio, all boaters can hear you and it is monitored by the police and coastguard. On a cell phone, no one else is really in the loop.

Greg
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Re: VHF Radio issues

Postby bud37 » May 9th, 2020, 12:40 pm

I will add, I have had a couple funky radios over the years that acted like the antenna was bad , found out the hard way after replacing the antenna .

Found Telus to work reasonably well on the bay. Still not a replacement for a quality radio.

Nothing lasts forever. Safety should win the day ...
The above is strictly my opinion always based on years of doing...remember to support local business , it pays back.
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Re: VHF Radio issues

Postby Tireless » May 9th, 2020, 1:19 pm

Bud37, the Admiral works for Telus, so thats who we have as a carrier. But, you are absolutely correct, on the Telus coverage in Northern Ontario. It is the best by far.

Greg
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Re: VHF Radio issues

Postby RGrew176 » May 10th, 2020, 2:32 am

A good antenna is a must for peak VHF performance.
Rick Grew

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2004 Past Commodore
West River Yacht & Cruising Club

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