VacuFlush trips Breaker

[Mikwallace]

Wow! What a weekend. We spent the night on the Hook Friday night, temps down to about 43* with gentle breeze, makes for a great night of sleeping with waves tapping on the boat. FWIW, didn’t run genny while sleeping, but stayed nice and cozy!

However; it wasn’t without some issues.

- aft hvac kept giving an E01 error; May have fixed that after returning to the Marina. See separate thread; “E01 error code on Salon hvac”.

- after retrieving the anchor I found the pressure arm strap in pieces. Got 2 ordered. Understand that plastic strap breaking is common.

- And this thread’s topic- the forward VacuFlush trips the breaker when trying to pump the vacuum.

If there’s zero vacuum, the pump makes about 4 strokes then trips the breaker. If I quickly reset breaker, it makes about 1 stroke and trips again. I checked the wiring at the pump motor and pressure switch. I manually open/closed the pressure switch via the spring at the pressure switch and it functions. Upon returning to the marina I had the tank pumped and have an Empty light on the panel.

I don’t have a thorough understanding of the complete VacuFlush system, but doesn’t look complicated. Maybe you guys could give me a Primer??

But, I will add, our 4yo grand daughter spent the night with us and thoroughly enjoyed it. This was her bathroom, ahh, head. Can’t say for sure, but, could too much TP in the toilet prevent the vacuum pump from cycling and cause it to trip the breaker? If so, what do I do now??

Another Head issue I have is with the women folk. They don’t seem to understand, “Hold the flush pedal DOWN for 3 seconds”!

I have found a new pump motor online, but WOW, they’re really proud of them. The motor in question is OEM equipment as it has its 1998 sticker still attached. Just don’t want to throw parts at it if it’s not needed!!

Any comments appreciated!!

[km1125]

It's likely the gear mechanism in the pump vacuum motor is getting worn and periodically jambs. What you can do in a pinch is cut the two wires between the motor and its connector (red/black) and swap them so red goes to black and black goes to red. This will reverse the direction the motor goes, but that doesn't matter to the actual vacuum system as the bellows still just go up and down.

That could get you through a weekend, or it could get you several more years on the motor. The real resolution would be taking the gear mechanism apart and seeing why it's jamming (probably needs some new thrust washers) or just replacing that whole (expensive) motor mechanism.

[Viper]

Check the mechanical connection where the motor is hooked up to the pump plunger/bellows assembly. Sometimes they get loose which prevents proper alignment and overworks the motor. That’s a simple inspection before you do anything else. Also look for worn out hardware while you’re there.

This could also be an electrical problem; corroded connections and wires, bad breaker, etc.

[bud37]

To add here....even if you find a mechanical failure, there may have been something that contributed to that. I would take it all apart and have a look anyway if it were me.......small rebuild won't hurt as it is really easy.

What kind of TP do you have onboard ? Some are better choices than others when it comes to vacu flush....

[Mikwallace]

Source of the post To add here....even if you find a mechanical failure, there may have been something that contributed to that. I would take it all apart and have a look anyway if it were me.......small rebuild won't hurt as it is really easy.

What kind of TP do you have onboard ? Some are better choices than others when it comes to vacu flush....

Yes, I see a disassembly in my crystal ball.

Not sure of the brand TP, but it’s Marine/RV TP.

I’ll know later in the week, but after watching several videos of VG2 rebuilds, I’m leaning more toward the over abundance of TP used by my 4 yo GD. If so, I have to take the hit because of lack of teaching on my part. We’ll see. I’ll report my findings.

However, several videos I watched by professionals quoted that if the system components (motor and bellows specifically) lasted 10 years you’re overdue for failure. The pump motor is OEM! Won’t know about the bellows until I tear it down.

Seems like I remember seeing in the maintenance recorders where the duck bills were replaced within the last 12 months. I’ll add that info to my follow up, also.

I’ve got a 12 sec video of the pump I’ll try to upload. Hmm? Looks like videos can’t be uploaded to this forum?

Thanks!

[Mikwallace]

Source of the post Check the mechanical connection where the motor is hooked up to the pump plunger/bellows assembly. Sometimes they get loose which prevents proper alignment and overworks the motor. That’s a simple inspection before you do anything else. Also look for worn out hardware while you’re there.

This could also be an electrical problem; corroded connections and wires, bad breaker, etc.

That was the first thing I checked, electrical connection are ok.

[Mikwallace]

Follow up-

Bad motor! I’m glad my 4 yo GD can’t read, she’d be mad at me for blaming her!!

All lines were clean, duck bills were clear& bellows could move. There’s grease/oil coming out of the motor gearbox housing.

Here’s a pic:

2567F42E-5EAD-476C-8F91-FDE1C3B04656.jpeg

I’ll write this motor up as 24 years of distinguished service; retired with honors!!

Looks like there’s an improved model, suppose to be better!!

Will order tomorrow and post an update after install.

Thanks for all your input.

[Mikwallace]

Follow up after motor install:

I received the motor kit, which included:
W Motor
O-rings
Bellows
Bellows clamp
Shoulder bolt
Mounting screws
And 4 duck bills

After rebuilding the pump I put it all back together and noticed the inlet elbow wasn’t fitting correctly. Someone had made their own and replaced the inlet fitting with 1” pvc with a rubber coaster (the thin rubber thing you put on a table to prevent a drinking glass from making ring on a table) wrapped around the 1” pvc. Needless to say that wouldn’t work. I ordered an inlet fitting and uniseal and installed it. Then the 1.5” hose coming from the toilet to the vacuum tank was too short because someone cut the hose length to fit the home made inlet. So I had the move the vacuum tank 1.5” toward the toilet so the hose would reach. What a PITA!

But it now works. It quickly builds vacuum and cuts off as advertised. The motor is suppose to be improved and is a bigger (physically) motor than the OEM. I still have a vacuum leak somewhere as about every 15 min the pump will run about 4 strokes and cut off. I’ve got to go back with a strap wrench and tighten the dip tube nut because I couldn’t get a good grip with my hand. It’ll probably turn another 1/4 turn. Hopefully that’s where my vacuum leak is. The only thing left to replace is o-rings on the dip tube and the pressure switch, about everything else is new.

[Mikwallace]

Follow up TO the Follow up—

Original Problem - FWD Head VacuFlush trips C/B. Reason: Vacuum Pump motor gearbox worn out, leaking oil/grease, and binding causing electric motor to strain/overload then trip circuit breaker.

Correction - Replaced vacuum electric motor, inc. gearbox. At the same time installed re-build kit plus 4 Duck Bills and vacuum tank inlet fitting.

This corrected the Original Problem and system operates.

The Causal Factor - vacuum leak in the system (I believe) was the causal factor that led to gearbox failure. After replacing the parts listed above, there’s still a vacuum leak that makes the pump cycle at a rate that you can almost set your watch by! Cycles every 5 min 40 sec to 6 min 20 sec.

How to find a slow Vacuum Leak? I searched this forum and didn’t find a method. So fell back to the Default - GOOGLE! Here’s a link to another boating Forum and the method I used to find the vacuum Leak:

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f1 ... -9576.html

This method worked for me and here’s where my vacuum leak is:

78122299-7929-4612-A321-A87317F85417.jpeg

Using the mechanic’s stethoscope I can definitely say, without any doubt, the leak is at that fitting. I put the paper towel and rubber band on to see if there’s a drip after the system is turned off and the vacuum escapes. At the end of the day when I leave the boat I turn off that side of the DC panel.

Permanent Fix - the permanent fix is to replace the 1.5” line between the toilet and vacuum tank. I’ve tightened the two screw clamps as tight as possible. Another solution might be remove 1.5” hose, silicone gasket maker the fitting and re-attach the hose, clamp tight, wait 24 hours then re-test. But I’ve read those hoses become saturated and fail - just as this one has??

I’ll post my final solution. Maybe this will help someone with a similar problem!!

[km1125]

First, I would take those two clamps loose and inspect the hose underneath. Those clamps -especially the one on the right- look overtightened, enough to stretch the clamp which also means it looses it's clamping force. The one on the right should definitely be replaced. It's very possible that hose is cracked underneath one of those clamps, more likely the one on the right.

If it's possible to cut a small section on that hose and reattach it, then I would do that. You'd only have to cut and inch or two off, but that's what I'd try. Use a heat gun to soften the hose, both for removal and reassembly. It will make the job much easier.

You should never need gasket-maker under those hoses to seal them. Disassemble, clean and reassemble and tighten properly with good clamps.