Welcome to Carver Yachts Owners Forum

We are a boating forum for owners of Carver Yachts to enthusiastically discuss all aspects of Carver Boat ownership. Whether you are looking for your first Carver or currently own one, you are sure to feel at home on CarverYachtOwners.com

You are currently viewing our board as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions, articles and access our other FREE features. By joining our free community you will have access to searching the forum topics, post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own photos and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

Electrical

Discussion of batteries, chargers, wiring, generators, distribution panels, battery switches, etc.
User avatar

Canada
Midnightsun
CYO Supporter
CYO Supporter
Posts: 2831
Joined: March 27th, 2016, 2:27 pm
Vessel Info: The Midnight Sun
2007 41CMY
Volvo D6-370's
Location: Montreal, Canada
Has thanked: 253 times
Been thanked: 1093 times

Re: Electrical

Postby Midnightsun » November 23rd, 2021, 6:15 am

The only way that will work is is the 2 outlets you intend on getting the power from to introduce into the boat are on separate phases which would then produce 240v. Without a neutral I cannot see how the transformer will work unless the neutral is tied into the ground. Give her a whirl but I think it will be back to the drawing board.
Cheers, Hans
2007 Carver 41 CMY
Twin Volvo D6-370's
Montreal, Canada
Midnight Sun I Photos

User avatar

United States of America
km1125
Admiral
Admiral
Posts: 3338
Joined: February 28th, 2017, 6:04 pm
Has thanked: 56 times
Been thanked: 965 times

Re: Electrical

Postby km1125 » November 23rd, 2021, 9:01 am

Midnightsun wrote:Source of the post The only way that will work is is the 2 outlets you intend on getting the power from to introduce into the boat are on separate phases which would then produce 240v. Without a neutral I cannot see how the transformer will work unless the neutral is tied into the ground. Give her a whirl but I think it will be back to the drawing board.

Yes, you definitely need two outlets that are fed from different parts of the panel, but where he's stored there are two close to his boat that are fed from different breakers. I didn't get a chance to check out the panel, but since it's a newer building and the outlets are fed from breakers #4 and #5 (sticker on outlets), I'm 99% sure that part would work. However, I also think the building is fed from 3-phase power, so I'm thinking he'll see more like 208 instead of 220 (or 240).

But I am concerned that one or both of the outlets might be GFCI's, which would prevent you just pulling power from the "HOT" and not sending it back on the neutral.

If you could see the wiring diagram on the boat, there is no neutral connection on the 240VAC 50A connector. The two "hots" go to each end of the isolation transformer primary side. That's the 240 in. On the output of the transformer, it is center-tapped, so THAT becomes the neutral for the boat and is used for any 120VAC circuits. The other two outputs of the secondary are the 240 "hots".
User avatar

Canada
Midnightsun
CYO Supporter
CYO Supporter
Posts: 2831
Joined: March 27th, 2016, 2:27 pm
Vessel Info: The Midnight Sun
2007 41CMY
Volvo D6-370's
Location: Montreal, Canada
Has thanked: 253 times
Been thanked: 1093 times

Re: Electrical

Postby Midnightsun » November 23rd, 2021, 9:16 am

If #4 and #5 breakers are on separate phases in the panel then you may just be operational. Key is different phases or you will never get 240v. 2 lines on the same phase will only produce 120v after combining the 2. Keep us posted.
Cheers, Hans
2007 Carver 41 CMY
Twin Volvo D6-370's
Montreal, Canada
Midnight Sun I Photos
User avatar

Canada
Tireless
Commander
Commander
Posts: 460
Joined: October 16th, 2018, 4:51 pm
Vessel Info: 2006 Carver 44 CMY
Volvo Penta D6 370 HP
Location: Port Severn, Ontario
Has thanked: 183 times
Been thanked: 185 times

Re: Electrical

Postby Tireless » November 23rd, 2021, 12:00 pm

Km1125, this is what my friend did to get power to his boat for charging as I stated earlier in the post.. His boat, as I stated before, requires 240V to run anything. He also, does not have and Isolator…

While we are on the hard we all plug into GFCI protected outlets at the front of cottages and it works fine and does not trip. Of course you have to plug each side into a different phase for it to work and remember not to over work the outlet on the boat side of this set up.

Greg
User avatar

United States of America
km1125
Admiral
Admiral
Posts: 3338
Joined: February 28th, 2017, 6:04 pm
Has thanked: 56 times
Been thanked: 965 times

Re: Electrical

Postby km1125 » December 3rd, 2021, 5:39 pm

Update.

So I made an adapter with two old extension cords and a 50A 240V connector. Spent some time with some shink to make it nice. I just ran the hot from each extension to the individual hots on the 50A connector, and tied the grounds together and connected them to the 50A ground. I did NOT connect the neutrals at all, as I figured if either of the outlets were wired "backwards" then it would a dead short. If that was the case, then the adapter wouldn't work at all, but that would be better than a dead short.

Here's what it looked like:
240_adapter_cords.jpg


However, as I stated earlier, I got to thinking more and more about how this might be an issue if there were GFCI outlets that he needed to connect to. The way the GFCI works, if you're pulling more current though the HOT than you are the NEUTRAL, it should trip the GFCI. He did have (only) GFCI outlets in the building he was storing in, so I needed to test that.

I found two outlets in my basement that were GFCI and were on separate circuits. I could get 240VAC between the two "HOTS" on the 120VAC outlets, so I rigged a test with two work lamps connected in series, as shown below:
Circuit_test.jpg


It immediately tripped the GFCI's, which I kinda was expecting. Back to square one. I have a new solution I'm testing on Sunday, which I'm 99% sure will work. I'll post an update after we test that.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar

United States of America
km1125
Admiral
Admiral
Posts: 3338
Joined: February 28th, 2017, 6:04 pm
Has thanked: 56 times
Been thanked: 965 times

Re: Electrical

Postby km1125 » December 6th, 2021, 11:21 am

AH-HA!! IT WORKS!! And it only needs a SINGLE 120VAC outlet!

Pretty simple actually. I got a 120VAC to 240VAC "converter" off Amazon and made a custom plug. Works great. Between this converter and the isolation transformer in the boat, they draw about 2.4A at 120VAC, so there's plenty left over to run the battery charger and misc other 120VAC things on the boat (like a fridge, or lights). The unit I bought was about $90 and should have handled up to 2000W, but I realized after cracking the case open that it is limited by a breaker inside to only 10A, or 1200W. Plenty though to run the charger. When we first hooked it up, it went to about 7A at 120VAC and his battery charger was putting out 35A at 14.8VDC. His batteries hadn't been charged since the beginning of Oct and he had used some stuff on the boat since then.

Here's the unit:

240VAC_Converter_device.jpg


Here's the custom plug I made. Just a 240VAC 50A connector to a 120VAC 15A connector.

240VAC_Converter_custom_plug.jpg


Here's the thing in use on the swim platform:

240VAC_Converter_in_use.jpg


When we plugged it in, I had a Kill-a-Watt plugged in so we could see how much it was drawing off the 120VAC outlet

240VAC_Converter_amp_draw.jpg


Could also be used at any place you stop in the summer if they don't have 50A 240V plugs within reach and would keep your fridge cold and batteries charged.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar

Canada
Midnightsun
CYO Supporter
CYO Supporter
Posts: 2831
Joined: March 27th, 2016, 2:27 pm
Vessel Info: The Midnight Sun
2007 41CMY
Volvo D6-370's
Location: Montreal, Canada
Has thanked: 253 times
Been thanked: 1093 times

Re: Electrical

Postby Midnightsun » December 6th, 2021, 12:19 pm

Great find and thanks for working this out. :down: :down:
Cheers, Hans
2007 Carver 41 CMY
Twin Volvo D6-370's
Montreal, Canada
Midnight Sun I Photos
User avatar

Canada
Midnightsun
CYO Supporter
CYO Supporter
Posts: 2831
Joined: March 27th, 2016, 2:27 pm
Vessel Info: The Midnight Sun
2007 41CMY
Volvo D6-370's
Location: Montreal, Canada
Has thanked: 253 times
Been thanked: 1093 times

Re: Electrical

Postby Midnightsun » December 7th, 2021, 1:36 pm

Did a little poking around on these inexpensive step up transformers. Even though the unit says 2000 this is peak not continuous. Could not find the speck on the 2000 model but the 3000 is rated at 1500w continuous therefor must assume a little over 1,000w for the 2000. A 15A circuit is capable of 1800w. That being said and for the minimal price difference their 5000 unit is rated at 3000w continuous however being Chinese spec let's use 2000 to be safe. ;-)

Point is one should go for the 5000 unit as this will allow you to take full advantage of a 15a 110v receptacle. There are many vendors on eBay, aliexpress and Amazon however eBay was by far the cheapest. This link shows $98 US delivered to a US address. I did purchase one as being able to use on board power on the hard is a great asset. https://www.ebay.com/itm/165026315362?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D0f974f560663462aa912bb8cb80357f7%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D165026315362%26itm%3D165026315362%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A5693e8ae-578a-11ec-ae13-d2ba50c347b9%7Cparentrq%3A962006ac17d0a764ad8d3626fff81fde%7Ciid%3A1

Thanks once again for doing the testing on this hopefully it will work on mine also. All I need do do now is make up a decent sized adapter cord which is a piece of cake. Find out in spring if it works or I have a $100 paper weight. :-D Regardless, can use it for other applications.
Cheers, Hans
2007 Carver 41 CMY
Twin Volvo D6-370's
Montreal, Canada
Midnight Sun I Photos
User avatar

Canada
bud37
Admiral
Admiral
Posts: 4676
Joined: April 23rd, 2015, 10:22 pm
Has thanked: 547 times
Been thanked: 1142 times

Re: Electrical

Postby bud37 » December 7th, 2021, 2:22 pm

Seems to be the answer, but, just not sure it is something I would leave unattended if it were my boat.....
The above is strictly my opinion always based on years of doing...remember to support local business , it pays back.
User avatar

Canada
Midnightsun
CYO Supporter
CYO Supporter
Posts: 2831
Joined: March 27th, 2016, 2:27 pm
Vessel Info: The Midnight Sun
2007 41CMY
Volvo D6-370's
Location: Montreal, Canada
Has thanked: 253 times
Been thanked: 1093 times

Re: Electrical

Postby Midnightsun » December 7th, 2021, 2:33 pm

I have no intention of leaving it unattended. Well maybe for a quick bite to eat at the local fast food place while working on the boat. ;-)
Cheers, Hans
2007 Carver 41 CMY
Twin Volvo D6-370's
Montreal, Canada
Midnight Sun I Photos

Return to “Electrical”



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 50 guests