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Lets Talk Chargers

Discussion of batteries, chargers, wiring, generators, distribution panels, battery switches, etc.
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Midnightsun
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Re: Lets Talk Chargers

Postby Midnightsun » April 11th, 2019, 7:23 am

Viper wrote:Source of the post When I replaced my charger I replaced a 60A with a 60A and found the existing DC wiring to be of insufficient size even though I was sticking with the same output, so I rewired everything which I was already prepared to do ahead of time anyway. Having said that, I never checked the old charger's output. It's possible that the particular model split the output evenly between the three banks (20A-20A-20A) and so could get away with smaller wire. This is still done today in less expensive units.


This is my thinking also, since the charger can not output more than 20a per bank they may have installed the wires from the charger to the banks to accommodate 20a only. Will definitely verify as I know I need 6 ga as a minimum to all banks if I go with the Pronautic 50.
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Re: Lets Talk Chargers

Postby Hugo » April 11th, 2019, 2:27 pm

Midnightsun wrote:
I have the same Charles 5000 charger as you and have to problem charging a 420AH bank of batteries.

You just wire all three banks of the charger as one into the house battery bank and you will get your 60 amps.


Never really had a problem but I have noticed when at anchor the house bank nevr really recovers that well and now I know why. Plugged into shore power there is definitely no problem however it will take quite some time if the bank is large as in 48hrs + to completely top off. Remember, you are only getting 80a after the 4 hr switch to absorption rate.

Problem is I have 4 banks. 3 on the 60a Charles and the Generator on an independent 10a Charles single bank. I would be short 2 banks if I wired the 60A to the house bank and again I will mention the Charles times out after 4 hours on bulk charge so bottom line is you can only get 240amp out of it total before it swings to absorption rate. The other 2 banks are rather important as not only do they do engines although those normally remain rather full are interconnected with another 31 group battery 2 form 2 banks that also operate the windlass, bow and stern thrusters so yes those banks could need a good charge at times.


I had same setup as you and I rewired it. I think the Charles 10 amp can handle the engines and generator no problem - it's sole purpose really is maintenance charging... Keep in mind the generator is charging it's battery when running and the engines are charging house/engines when running if wired properly through your isolators. Your main concern is house bank when anchored...

My charles 60 amp now does house only which is a bank of 4 group 31 and the thruster is hooked up to that as well.
You could and should hook up both your thrusters to the house bank as a larger bank will handle the loads much better.
My bow Thruster has huge current draw ~ 500amps...

The charles 10 amp does the engines and the generator and the windlass is off of one of the engine batteries. Engines are (should) always be running when you are running windlass so there is no issue with the 10amp charger for simply maintaining them at the dock as the alternators provide plenty of power for the windlass.

I did this 8 years ago and it has worked flawless but I had issues wired it the way you have it. You would need greater than a 480AH bank for the 240AH out of the 60amp charger to be an issue and even so it really isn't because you shouldn't be discharging the banks below 50%. I actually charge them back up at 30-35%. You also won't have the AH you think you have unless they are brand new batteries. Each year you can figure on removing an easy 10 -15 amps out of that capacity and adjust your battery monitor as such.

I think you can do this with the setup you have with just some re-wiring and keep the $ in your pocket 8-)

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Re: Lets Talk Chargers

Postby darrenlife » April 11th, 2019, 5:37 pm

I’m in the process of installing an inverter/charger. The boat currently has a 10A for the mains and gen battery while the 60A is the connected to house bank.

All batteries are on the starboard side with the AC panel and the DC panel is on the port side. I’m going to place the inverter on the port side of the boat and relocate my house batteries to port close to the inverter. The only complication is that I have a “safety panel” that has breakers for my windlass and blowers. My plan is to pull the 4/0 house wire back to port side so that the distance between house bank and DC panel are shortened. I will also need to run a new wire from the isolator to the new house bank location for alternator charging.

I’m not sure Why the house bank was originally located and wired with the 4/0 cable at $20 per foot was run across the beam of the boat?
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Re: Lets Talk Chargers

Postby Hugo » April 11th, 2019, 5:40 pm

Most likely to balance the weight of the boat...
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Re: Lets Talk Chargers

Postby bud37 » April 12th, 2019, 8:28 am

darrenlife wrote:Source of the post I’m in the process of installing an inverter/charger. The boat currently has a 10A for the mains and gen battery while the 60A is the connected to house bank.

All batteries are on the starboard side with the AC panel and the DC panel is on the port side. I’m going to place the inverter on the port side of the boat and relocate my house batteries to port close to the inverter. The only complication is that I have a “safety panel” that has breakers for my windlass and blowers. My plan is to pull the 4/0 house wire back to port side so that the distance between house bank and DC panel are shortened. I will also need to run a new wire from the isolator to the new house bank location for alternator charging.

I’m not sure Why the house bank was originally located and wired with the 4/0 cable at $20 per foot was run across the beam of the boat?



Just a suggestion, but why not move all the batteries over temporarily and see how the boat reacts first, then you will know before all the wiring takes place. Of course after saying this, it occurs to me you are wanting to do this before the boat goes back in..... :-D
The above is strictly my opinion always based on years of doing...remember to support local business , it pays back.

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Re: Lets Talk Chargers

Postby darrenlife » April 12th, 2019, 5:40 pm

bud37 wrote:Source of the post
darrenlife wrote:Source of the post I’m in the process of installing an inverter/charger. The boat currently has a 10A for the mains and gen battery while the 60A is the connected to house bank.

All batteries are on the starboard side with the AC panel and the DC panel is on the port side. I’m going to place the inverter on the port side of the boat and relocate my house batteries to port close to the inverter. The only complication is that I have a “safety panel” that has breakers for my windlass and blowers. My plan is to pull the 4/0 house wire back to port side so that the distance between house bank and DC panel are shortened. I will also need to run a new wire from the isolator to the new house bank location for alternator charging.

I’m not sure Why the house bank was originally located and wired with the 4/0 cable at $20 per foot was run across the beam of the boat?



Just a suggestion, but why not move all the batteries over temporarily and see how the boat reacts first, then you will know before all the wiring takes place. Of course after saying this, it occurs to me you are wanting to do this before the boat goes back in..... :-D


Great thought! Unfortunately I’m trying to get the majority of my projects done before the boat goes in the water.

I had considered the balance: generator, fuel tanks, waste tanks,and water tank are centerline. The galley and second stateroom are to port so hopefully an additional 250lbs of battery isn’t enough to tip the scales.

Hans: sorry for hijacking your post
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Re: Lets Talk Chargers

Postby Helmsman » July 3rd, 2019, 9:18 pm

darrenlife wrote:
bud37 wrote:Source of the post
darrenlife wrote:Source of the post I’m in the process of installing an inverter/charger. The boat currently has a 10A for the mains and gen battery while the 60A is the connected to house bank.

All batteries are on the starboard side with the AC panel and the DC panel is on the port side. I’m going to place the inverter on the port side of the boat and relocate my house batteries to port close to the inverter. The only complication is that I have a “safety panel” that has breakers for my windlass and blowers. My plan is to pull the 4/0 house wire back to port side so that the distance between house bank and DC panel are shortened. I will also need to run a new wire from the isolator to the new house bank location for alternator charging.

I’m not sure Why the house bank was originally located and wired with the 4/0 cable at $20 per foot was run across the beam of the boat?


Just a suggestion, but why not move all the batteries over temporarily and see how the boat reacts first, then you will know before all the wiring takes place. Of course after saying this, it occurs to me you are wanting to do this before the boat goes back in..... :-D


Great thought! Unfortunately I’m trying to get the majority of my projects done before the boat goes in the water.

I had considered the balance: generator, fuel tanks, waste tanks,and water tank are centerline. The galley and second stateroom are to port so hopefully an additional 250lbs of battery isn’t enough to tip the scales.

Hans: sorry for hijacking your post



Reading this has an application to me. I have a ProMariner 200PS inverter/charger which I am using to charge just the new inverter bank. I have a 10 amp Charles charger for the gennie, and a 60 amp Charles charger for the old house bank and the two engine batteries. I am now wondering if I should just use the ProMariner to charge the old house bank and the two engines and get rid of the Charles charger altogether? I think I would have the same issues Hans has with the wiring gauge. I would also have to figure out whether I need an isolator just for this set up.
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Re: Lets Talk Chargers

Postby heavenbound » July 23rd, 2021, 1:37 am

Just recently purchased a 97 405 and going from a 31 searay to all of these systems has been a challenge to try to get safely familiar with. The 405 has been kept up somewhat and the Charles was replaced with a Xantrex Freedom HF 1800 inverter / charger probably around 2007-08.

Lately the Xantrex has been alarming and going to the fault flashing red. After it alarms I cut the power off at the main panel switch (which is unlabeled) and the Xantrex stops. I wait maybe 20-45 seconds and turn it back on, and it seems to reset and is fine (sometimes for many day's, and then it goes into the alarm, and flashing. I can see codes, but the older type LED read outs are broken up and it is a guessing game as to what the codes are.
A few days ago before the alarm went off I checked all the batteries levels. We also have a Promariner ProNautic 12-10P.
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