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Small boat and Titanic same problem!
- hardchines
- First Mate
- Posts: 127
- Joined: October 2nd, 2014, 1:38 pm
- Vessel Info: 1980 Carver
2667
Santa Cruz - Has thanked: 8 times
- Been thanked: 29 times
Small boat and Titanic same problem!
The Titanic had a problem just like mine, not enough rudder, in some respects worse then mine. Titanic had one rudder behind the center shaft only, one problem with this that you never see on the documentary shows, is that the center shaft only turned when the ship was going forward using the other shafts, no reverse rotation ever, center shaft was a steam turbine that used the waste steam from the largest steam piston engines ever built to date! Ok so my giant 26 foot yacht has one small Mercury alpha gen 2 outdrive, fine for control at higher speed then I cruise at but not good at very low speeds such as mine. first I have allot of wandering at low speeds unless I put my large trim tabs down, then tracking is fine and no detectable speed loss as a result of tab position as I travel SLOW! I went threw 70 locks last year, I found as I approached the lock walls at slow speeds I had very little helm control and a long delay of what control I did have even with helm hard over.
The plan to fix the problem, first I figured I would just buy a set of Wander fins or Uncle Norms Orca fins to remedy the problem, they get good reviews for fixing bow wander and they help get your boat on plane faster! They are small so they can wok at high speeds. They are a good fit for most normal IO boats but my boat is anything but normal, the original empty weight of the 2667 was about 5400 lbs dry, 6200 with full gas and water, I am tipping the scales at just north of 8100 lbs wet but completely empty, I carry allot of equipment and supplies that adds considerably to this number. Heavy slow and a tiny little rudder, I gotta watch for ice bergs! I have decided to build my own set of flanking rudders (normally in front of props) for my out drive, similar to wander fins but much larger in every respect, I think this will work fine as my normal cruise speed is 6.1 MPH and max speed of around 9 MPH, I hope it eliminates bow wander so I can stop dragging the back of the boat with the trim tabs ( may get me up to 6.2 MPH )they should give me allot of helm at slow speeds and should take some load off of the hydraulic autopilot pump! Because of their size I am making them out of 1/4 inch high grade aluminum plate, sorry for all the verbiage but I am long winded! photos to follow soon
- km1125
- Admiral
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Re: Small boat and Titanic same problem!
If you never get on plane, what about a different prop? I use a "high thrust" prop on my outboard, which is also used on a lot of 8-10K lb sailboats for better maneuverability at the slower speeds.
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- CYO Supporter
- Posts: 5799
- Joined: July 10th, 2015, 9:58 pm
- Vessel Info: 1989 Carver 3807 Aft Cabin
- Location: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Small boat and Titanic same problem!
I'm not a big fan of adding anything to drives for a few reasons:
- anything that is bolted through the drive means holes that WILL increase corrosion. Adding more stainless steel (bolts) in contact with the drive will also increase corrosion. For those that are not bolted through, they are not electrically connected to the drive which is a must if the item is to be properly protected by the anodes on the drive.
- The drive casing is a specific aluminum alloy blend. Anode metallurgy takes this into consideration. If you're going to add a dissimilar aluminum alloy in close proximity, I'd keep an eye on your drive and anodes to ensure the addition of the new alloy doesn't change the electrical potential that's protecting your drive.
- adding anything on to the drive such as fins or stainless skegs, etc. increase the potential of a major casing failure should it get hit. These areas are designed to break away when hit, and can be easily repaired. When hardware gets fastened to these areas, they tend to cause un-repairable casing/drive damage after an impact.
- dsolo
- First Mate
- Posts: 193
- Joined: October 24th, 2016, 2:56 am
- Vessel Info: 1997 Carver 405 MY
454 EFI Crusaders
Name: La Belle ll - Location: Onekama, Michigan
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Re: Small boat and Titanic same problem!
If you have determined your acceptable cruising speed of 6-9 knots you have plenty of options. I haven't figured this out yet. Hope to with more time on lake.
Vessel "LaBelle"
Portage Point Inn & Marina, Onekema, Mi
1997 Carver 405 MY
454 EFI Crusaders
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- CYO Supporter
- Posts: 5799
- Joined: July 10th, 2015, 9:58 pm
- Vessel Info: 1989 Carver 3807 Aft Cabin
- Location: Ontario, Canada
- Has thanked: 431 times
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Re: Small boat and Titanic same problem!
dsolo wrote:Source of the post.....I own a 405 MY and have control issues when under windy conditions.....Any wind over 10 knots is a challenge.....I would like more bite and positive reaction at idle speeds.......
Most of us struggle with the same thing. All you can do is take measures to overcome varying conditions. You're basically a big wall that the wind is pushing against. The bigger the surface, the more the impact wind will have. Add current, anxiety, tight quarters, etc. and it can be a challenge for sure.
Thrusters help, along with steering, increased rpm, and friends at the dock. More bite is good to a certain point but it can also be a challenge at times in tight quarters as small adjustments are doable but not without some forethought. I've been on relatively small boats for the sizes of diesels installed and I can tell you, they have a lot of bite and can be scary docking aft in since a momentary touch of the shifter swings you three feet. It's great in windy conditions but is the opposite and challenging when it's calm if you're not use to it.
Practice practice practice!
- km1125
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Re: Small boat and Titanic same problem!
dsolo wrote:Source of the post I am sure Viper is giving good technical advice above. But I struggle with the same issue. I own a 405 MY and have control issues when under windy conditions. I just don't feel the control. My slip is 16 feet wide and the approach is 50' wide. My pal is 43'. I am stern in. Any wind over 10 knots is a challenge. Northeast winds are killer. I would like more bite and positive reaction at idle speeds.
If you have determined your acceptable cruising speed of 6-9 knots you have plenty of options. I haven't figured this out yet. Hope to with more time on lake.
When docking in such conditions, you may have to rely on gracefully using pilings as pivot points.
- dsolo
- First Mate
- Posts: 193
- Joined: October 24th, 2016, 2:56 am
- Vessel Info: 1997 Carver 405 MY
454 EFI Crusaders
Name: La Belle ll - Location: Onekama, Michigan
- Has thanked: 68 times
- Been thanked: 25 times
Re: Small boat and Titanic same problem!
Vessel "LaBelle"
Portage Point Inn & Marina, Onekema, Mi
1997 Carver 405 MY
454 EFI Crusaders
- hardchines
- First Mate
- Posts: 127
- Joined: October 2nd, 2014, 1:38 pm
- Vessel Info: 1980 Carver
2667
Santa Cruz - Has thanked: 8 times
- Been thanked: 29 times
Re: Small boat and Titanic same problem!
- hardchines
- First Mate
- Posts: 127
- Joined: October 2nd, 2014, 1:38 pm
- Vessel Info: 1980 Carver
2667
Santa Cruz - Has thanked: 8 times
- Been thanked: 29 times
Re: Small boat and Titanic same problem!
- hardchines
- First Mate
- Posts: 127
- Joined: October 2nd, 2014, 1:38 pm
- Vessel Info: 1980 Carver
2667
Santa Cruz - Has thanked: 8 times
- Been thanked: 29 times
Re: Small boat and Titanic same problem!
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