Crown Head - Water Pressure?

[chpsk8]

So I'm having some issues with my forward head. It's a Crown vintage 1995. Electric macerator style.

When I bought the boat it had very little water flow when flushing. I figured I would buy a rebuild kit and put a new impeller in along with some new gaskets. I did this, and now I have even less water flow.(Before the impeller change you could barely see water even if you ran the head for 20 seconds, but there was a little) I traced the supply water line and found that it taps in BEFORE the water pump for the entire boat.

It seems weird to me that that little impeller would be able to suck water from under the bed, all the way up to the bow of the boat.

Here's another facet to my issues. I notice that randomly I get a couple inches of clean water in my forward bilge. Not enough to trip the bilge pump, but water none the less. The shower/AC sump is working well and that box never fills up, so I know it's not that water. I've been looking for leaks in the water lines, but not seeing anything. We also get air in the water lines for a long time after sitting. The faucets spit and sputter for awhile even on city water. Knowing how the head is plumbed I would think this is caused by the head being plumbed in front of the pump and that water line being empty. (because the impeller can't seem to pull that far)

So here's my question. Can I tap the water line to the head in AFTER the pump so the water pump supplies the water pressure and the impeller just helps move it along?

Is there a good way to pressure test my water system? For the record I leave the pump on all the time on weekends and I don't ever hear the pump randomly kick on. I'm thinking my forward bilge water somehow is tied to the head feed line. I was thinking I could disconnect both ends of the head feed line and apply air to it, but is there some gauge I can buy to do this?

I'm not opposed to buying a new head if I need to, in fact we've been leaning that way because these Crown heads are pretty dated, but first I'd need to make sure I can get water to the front head reliably.

FWIW I did call Carver and got the water line drawings for the boat. They are pretty generic and don't align with how mine is set up. It shows the feed line for the head go along the outside of the boat and mine runs right up the middle and is very clearly factory and matches the rear head plumbing. (white sanitary lines buried in sealant when it passes through a bulkhead).

[bud37]

My opinion....time for a new head.....that is what I am doing.....by the time you search around, then buy some more rebuild kits and the," while I'm in there", stuff.....well you see...
I believe there to be some much nicer stuff on the market nowadays......happy life stuff......good luck man.

[tomschauer]

The crown heads are a bit finicky, but work well when set up ok. If there is any leak on the suction side of the impeller, they wont move water. Look for hairline cracks in the impeller housing if you replaced the impeller and all gaskets. You could also have a leak somewhere in your line to the head. That could explain the water in your bilge and the head water flow problem, but not your supporting faucets.
If you hook the head water feed to the pressure side of the system, you will need to add a solenoid valve or head will over fill and "wash your floor". I don't think you would like that.

[chpsk8]

Thanks Tom and Bud. Good advice. I'll pressure test the line that feeds the head, repair if needed, and just look around for a new head. I'd prefer something that held a little water in the bowl like a home toilet.

My hope is that my front bilge water issue is totally related to the front head water not sucking. My bet is there's a small crack in the line somewhere and when the head starts sucking water it can't make vacuum, and then eventually trickles out of the crack.
A couple weeks ago I had the line to the head off the head connection and just sitting next to it. I was outside the boat and noticed my shower bilge pumping water pretty regularly. Sure enough, somehow water siphoned its way all the way to the head in that line. I quick put it on and hit the flush button, but no water came through. Pulled the line... no water. So strange

If these are my problems I'm thinking I'm pretty lucky. haha!

[Capn Crunch]

I know this thread is dated a bit, however our new to us Santego has the '95 version of the Crown electric as well... pumps out waste (we've been using the fresh water from shower for the flush) but won't draw water in - I followed what I thought was waste water intake from a sea cock for the head, but not sure about that, no effect open or closed.

The suggestions to replace the head, assuming we want to stay electric, what is the "go to" brand, and do any of them use existing intake systems? And in the meantime, where do you source replacement parts for crown? Impeller was my guess on issues for it.

Thanks,
Mark

[Viper]

Sounds like a pump problem providing nothing is impeding the water flow. You also need to ensure that the inside of the pump housing is in good shape and that the cover ends up properly sealed or the pump won't draw any water.

[chpsk8]

I think Bud had the better solution for me, just replace the whole thing.

I ended up putting in a Raritan Marine Elegance in both heads. Yes they are expensive, but I'll say they are the best heads I've used and it really was worth the price of admission. I now use pressurized water and not trying to suck water from the tank with the head. The bowl has water in it where the crown never did. And I had 6 ladies onboard for a weekend and I never once had a problem or even a question about the head. Push a button, flush it down. It deals with everything.

I can go into detail about the install if you want. There's some hurdles, but nothing significant.

[Capn Crunch]

Source of the post I think Bud had the better solution for me, just replace the whole thing.

I ended up putting in a Raritan Marine Elegance in both heads. Yes they are expensive, but I'll say they are the best heads I've used and it really was worth the price of admission. I now use pressurized water and not trying to suck water from the tank with the head. The bowl has water in it where the crown never did. And I had 6 ladies onboard for a weekend and I never once had a problem or even a question about the head. Push a button, flush it down. It deals with everything.

I can go into detail about the install if you want. There's some hurdles, but nothing significant.

The details (at least to this novice) seem significant... Elegance is vacu-flush? If so, how do you change fully electric to vacuum? I was under the impression that vacu-flush marine systems are problematic... still true? Was there not a fully electric system available that would have been simpler to just change out?

Thanks all for your input... greatly helpful!!

Mark

[chpsk8]

The marine elegance isn’t a vacuflush. You only need the toilet and it’s control panel to make it work. It connects to your existing black water line, but you do need to do some input water plumbing, but not a lot.

Their website is miserable, but has good info. Shop around when you look for one and make sure you get the one with the control buttons and not just the single flush button.
https://www.raritaneng.com/en/shop/products/marine-elegance

Here’s what I did on my 95 355 Aft.

Pull the existing crown toilet. You’ll find there are two heavy gauge power leads that go to the motor on the toilet. You will use those to power your new toilet. You will also see two relay wires that go to the flush button on the wall. You won’t need those anymore. Clip and cap them.

First the electrical...
I needed to pull more of the existing heavy gauge wire out of the floor, but carver used some hella no fun adhesive to seal them into the hole in the floor. I was able to pry that adhesive out so I could pull the wire from the floor to a new control box that mounts on the wall behind the new toilet. I needed to pull maybe 8”s at most, so not a lot.

There’s a control box that comes with the new toilet. For simple installs you connect the power to it, and then connect a supplied Ethernet cable to the box and that powers the new control buttons you will be installing. It has other functions for more complicated connections, but I didn’t need them.
So connect power and Ethernet wire, then pick a spot for your control buttons.
Drill the appropriate hole for the control buttons and plug the Ethernet wire into the back of it. Mount it to the wall and you are done with electrical.

Plumbing...
You need to tap into the pressurized water on the cold side. I found a spot under the sink that I could tap into easily. My lines are 1/2” pex, so it was super simple to cut in a tee.
Run the line to where the toilet will be, mine was through the vanity and popped out at floor level, then routed to the toilet. Again, not that far, three feet of line maybe.

Black water line, sewer line, poo tank line, whatever you want to call it.. the smelly pipe...
In my front head my black water line came out of a wall and went straight into the old toilet. The new toilet wants you to have that hose pointed vertically. I was able to bend the line enough, but I think it would be better if you put in a 90 to point it up. If you can reroute that hose to come out from the floor that is the best way. I did that in my aft head.
Connect the water line and the black water. Follow the instructions for mounting to the floor, and boom you have a new favorite place to hang out!

I have a video I can link that shows it flushing. My wife wasn’t with me when I installed it so I sent it as proof. Haha.

Raritan has awesome customer service and will walk you through every step. Their website is terrible, but they make up for it with customer service for sure. I had parts shipped overnight to a marina I was heading to on vacation. No questions, they did everything they could to keep us rolling down the river.

Edit...
here’s the video. Doesn’t show much, but you can see it work, and see the control switch on the wall. Oh and it doesn’t wake the neighbors when you flush now.
https://youtu.be/MOKC6FRYcOc




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