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Dumb Boater Here Please help me Identify water Pumps so I can order them

Discussion of AC's, plumbing and sanitation related issues.
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Dumb Boater Here Please help me Identify water Pumps so I can order them

Postby bidbuygone » February 14th, 2016, 1:23 am

Trying to figure out what pump 1, Pump 2 and tank 1 are. I'm fixing a carver yacht that took on water and trying to get the bathrooms online. If anyone has a water pump diagram of a 2 bathroom 40-60 carver that would be awesome. I noticed I had two different water tanks one for each bathroom I really would like to take a shower one day any help would be great. Does anyone know what the pumps look like that provide the pressure to the showers and sink? Thanks
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Re: Dumb Boater Here Please help me Identify water Pumps so I can order them

Postby Viper » February 14th, 2016, 7:42 am

Blue tank looks like an accumulator tank for the fresh water system. See bottom of page in the link below. It's not a diagram of your boat but it'll give you an idea of a typical fresh water system circuit. At the top of the page, is a picture of a typical fresh water system pump. It's usually in the vicinity of the accumulator tank:
http://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Pressurized-Freshwater-Systems

Pump 2 looks like an air conditioner raw water pump. Looks like you have 2 side by side. The other items look like raw water intake strainers for the pumps.

What kind of heads do you have, Vacuflush? If so, here is a typical system hook up and a picture of the head itself. Inland water boats would have the overboard discharge disconnected. I see yours is a salt water boat. These units are powered by 12 volts so you must make sure the pump is getting power.
http://blog.arribasail.com/2015/04/tech-tale-of-two-heads-or-fixing-a-marine-toilet.html

Looks like you have a lot of work to do.
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Re: Dumb Boater Here Please help me Identify water Pumps so I can order them

Postby bidbuygone » February 15th, 2016, 6:16 am

Thanks viper for the help out i guess those pumps don't matter to take a shower I posted some more pics and I guess I'm gonna trace hoses to better understand how many pumps I gotta buy to get things going. #overwhelmed
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Re: Dumb Boater Here Please help me Identify water Pumps so I can order them

Postby Viper » February 15th, 2016, 9:23 am

Before you do anything else, clean the terminals and cable connectors on ALL of your batteries, and ensure that your batteries are actually good (test them) or you will be chasing electrical issues that may simply be battery problems.

Do the heads (toilets) have foot pedals on them? If they do, they work on vacuum and each head will have a vacuum generator somewhere between the head and the holding tank as noted in the diagram of the first link of my post above. Depending on the model, there will be a pump there that looks similar to this
http://yachtvolare.blogspot.ca/2013/03/fixing-vacuflush.html
I've seen these in engine compartments, under stairs, under beds, under benches, behind wall panels, in closets, behind fridges, etc. Wherever the boat manufacturer figures it will be the most difficult to get at :banghead:

Your first task should be to check and see if you are getting 12 volts to the pump. There will be a breaker at the electrical panel, and they will sometimes have an in-line fuse at the pump. A bad vacuum switch seen here will also prevent the unit prom running. The assembly should have a square coveer on it. http://www.environmentalmarine.com/kit-vacuum-switch-vgii-310540/

These systems typically run off your fresh water system so it needs to be working as well. When the pedal is partially depressed, it will allow water into the bowl. When it's pushed all the way, the ball in the bowl will open and the vacuum will take everything away. When you finally get the system running, remember that the water in the bowl helps to make a proper vacuum seal, so again, the water system must be working or you can pour water in the bowl for testing purposes.

The 3rd picture in your last post is a macerator (by the battery) for overboard discharge.

If the vessel was partially submerged, ANY wiring, connectors, electrical hardware, etc. that was under water is suspect as a possible cause for its respective system not working. Unfortunately, it's likely that you will continue to have gremlins and system failures until all the electrical hardware is cleaned up or replaced.

PS: if you can't get the on-board water system working just yet, why not hook up your dock-side water? There should be a fitting in the cockpit where you can hook up a potable hose from the dock to the boat. This will give you pressurized water and allow you to take a shower providing the water heater works.

***PPS: I just saw the vacuum genrator in your 3rd picture behind the macerator! it is the while plastic tank. the vacuum pump should be mounted on it or beside it.
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Re: Dumb Boater Here Please help me Identify water Pumps so I can order them

Postby bidbuygone » February 20th, 2016, 7:05 am

Ok so your thinking that some of my pumps are still working even after submersion? I'm going to go to my boat next weekend and put some of your knowledge to the test. I got batteries holding power I haven't tried to use or make anything work just yet. Now that you've given me a better understanding of what I'm looking at and how things work, I have more self confidence. Once again thanks for the help I might actually be taking showers before the summer now you cut weeks off my boaters for idiots schedule. Thanks

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Re: Dumb Boater Here Please help me Identify water Pumps so I can order them

Postby Viper » February 20th, 2016, 10:21 am

I don't know how far she was submerged so I can't say which motors/pumps will work and which ones won't. For safety reasons, replace those that were under water. Even if they work now, it's likely they'll fail soon or worse, cause a fire but for now (for diagnosis only), they'll serve to help getting related systems running to determine if anything else in that system needs to be addressed. For example, if your air conditioner raw water pumps don't work, the air conditioners themshelves will only run for a few minutes before shutting down. While they'll generate a code, in some cases, one can't tell if the fault is due to the water pump only or the air conditioner. If the water pump is working at full rated flow and the air conditioner still shuts down after a few minutes, the issue will be at the control box or air conditioner itself, or supply power.

**For the benefit of everyone, those air conditioner pumps in the pictures are no longer considered safe for engine compartment installations however there are countless Carvers (and other brands) with those installed in engine bays. There is a very specific model of that brand that is ignition protected but for the most part, I switch out to these now: http://www.westmarine.com/buy/dometic--seawater-circulation-pump--P012_361_001_515
If you had these installed, they'd be okay as they can run submerged.

If the vacuum generator pump was under water, it should be replaced. If the vacuum switch was underwater, it may still work but chances are it'll corrode and fail soon. Of course that will happen when you least want it too so you may want to be proactive and do it now. There's nothing worse than planning on anchoring out for a weekend only to have a sanitation system failure while you're out there.

None of this stuff is cheap. In fact all the pumps discussed and the vacuum switch are costly.
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Re: Dumb Boater Here Please help me Identify water Pumps so I can order them

Postby bidbuygone » February 23rd, 2016, 3:44 am

Yea thats what i thought i was just going to replace everything most of that stuff is on the internet decently cheap. I bought new ac units but haven't installed them yet glad you explained those pumps to me. I need to fix a handrail on the boat i was wondering if you knew where i could get stainless base plates to mount the tubes to the boat.
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Re: Dumb Boater Here Please help me Identify water Pumps so I can order them

Postby Viper » February 23rd, 2016, 7:12 pm

If you want to keep it original, you may want to contact Carver on that as they can probably direct you to their supplier that carries the exact base or they may even still carry them. Then it's a matter of having a local welding shop with stainless steel experience do the rest. A stainless steel shop that specializes in marine apps may also have these in stock. Since rails can be at compound angles to the bases, I prefer using a company that will actually come out, fit it properly and weld it at the boat. This way you're assured the angles will be right and that the base bolt holes will line up perfectly with the existing holes on the deck. Forcing the base to line up after welding could cause issues later as it stresses both the base and the deck and gel around it.

The other options are to straighten the one you have which is probably very doable or use an off-the-shelf unit that you can slide the rail on to after cutting the existing base off. These are readily available at most marinas and marine supply stores. You'll just need to ensure you get the right angled fitting as there are a few standard angles; 90, 45, and 30 come to mind.
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Re: Dumb Boater Here Please help me Identify water Pumps so I can order them

Postby bidbuygone » February 23rd, 2016, 7:33 pm

Once again thanks for the input. The boat was made in year 2000 so its hard to find exact matches but if you know of any item numbers from any sites i know forums don't like links, that can point me to the pumps i need that would be great. As far as the stainless crisis i'm in virginia beach just outside norfolk va. If you know what keywords to type in or know any boat owners my way that have experience in the stainless that would be great.

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Re: Dumb Boater Here Please help me Identify water Pumps so I can order them

Postby Viper » February 23rd, 2016, 9:25 pm

Contact Carver, and I'm sure a member out your way will hopefully chime in with local info.

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