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No power (electrical) 1996 454 Crusader XL TBI

GAS engine, transmission and generator repair and maintenance discussion forum.
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Re: No power (electrical) 1996 454 Crusader XL TBI

Postby bud37 » June 13th, 2018, 7:27 pm

No need to bypass....Just check the neutral switch ....usually it just makes to ground in neutral (at least the ones I have seen so far), so put shifter in neutral then check continuity from connector to ground then compare as shifter is moved into gear. The other would be the oil pressure switch if there is one , not the sender. .....thats all I got.

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Re: No power (electrical) 1996 454 Crusader XL TBI

Postby 390Express » June 13th, 2018, 10:09 pm

Wouldn’t the neutral safety switch make it not crank? What about the oil pressure switch?

Cranks with the switch at the helm, no power to the trigger that actuated the relay that sends power to the ecu and fuel pump.
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Re: No power (electrical) 1996 454 Crusader XL TBI

Postby km1125 » June 14th, 2018, 7:16 am

The neutral safety switch can just be jumpered to close the circuit. I don't believe the oil pressure switch is in the circuit for starting, as there would be no oil pressure. Someone else would have to weigh in. I think you can also jump that one if it is the case.
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Re: No power (electrical) 1996 454 Crusader XL TBI

Postby 390Express » June 15th, 2018, 8:03 am

Is there an easy way to bypass the 9 pin female, (the side the goes to the helm), and just run a hot to part of the 9 pin, or elsewhere? I realize that the gauges won't work, but at least I would know if my issue is with the engine wiring harness, or if it has more to do with the boat wiring going to the helm/cabin mounted circuit breaker.

I'd like to narrow my focus if at all possible.
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Re: No power (electrical) 1996 454 Crusader XL TBI

Postby 390Express » June 15th, 2018, 2:28 pm

I think I finally located the wiring diagram for the motor. Still no luck for the boat side. I have done a lot of research that suggests that it may be a bad tach, bad distributor module, or bad coil. Thoughts?

Also, the wiring diagram references Circle 18 "Harness Connector to Starting/Charging Harness", and it looks like a simple 3-4 wire harness for a trailer. Can I disconnect the 9 pin, and somehow wire this Starting/Charging harness to omit issues at the helm? (tach, short, bad breaker, bad switch, etc.)
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Re: No power (electrical) 1996 454 Crusader XL TBI

Postby 390Express » June 16th, 2018, 2:36 pm

I traced my electrical issue to the 9 pin male connector. (the connector that comes from the helm back to the motor) I have absolutely no power from the helm back to the 9 pin connector. (no power to the coil, no power to the ignition, no power to the fat #2 "battery" post, and no power to the engine alarms)

I bypassed the "engine off" button, and ran the fat red wire from the ignition circuit breaker right to the purple wires that first go to the gauges, then go to the 9 pin. I have 12v at the fat red wire, and have 12v at each of the three purple wires, but still nothing at the 9 pin. The switch is completely bypassed, and is now "closed" just like it would be with a working switch.

Any ideas where to start? I can't see where these purple wires go next.

When I pushed the "ignition off" button on the port motor, the tach moves, and the voltage meter moves, to the extent that it means anything.
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Re: No power (electrical) 1996 454 Crusader XL TBI

Postby km1125 » June 17th, 2018, 5:53 pm

I have not worked on the generation of motor/dash you have, but I think all the power comes FROM the engine on that "fat red wire" and feeds the ignition/start button and it comes from the engine though the harness. It should be connected to the main engine breaker.

Purple normally is the ignition circuit and yellow/red or white is the starter circuit. The yellow/red would make sense on yours because that is what is on your "start" button. I wonder if this goes directly to the starter solenoid or if it goes to the relays first and then to the starter solenoid. If it goes to the starter solenoid, then you may have a wire from the solenoid to the latching relay which activates it when you push "start".

I think the neutral safety would just be in the solenoid to the starter but now I'm wondering if THAT is what is used to activate the latching relays for the ecm and fuel pump. I've never seen it done that way but I can't imagine that those things are powered up all the time when your engine breaker is on.
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Re: No power (electrical) 1996 454 Crusader XL TBI

Postby 390Express » June 18th, 2018, 2:38 am

km1125 wrote:Source of the post I have not worked on the generation of motor/dash you have, but I think all the power comes FROM the engine on that "fat red wire" and feeds the ignition/start button and it comes from the engine though the harness. It should be connected to the main engine breaker.

Purple normally is the ignition circuit and yellow/red or white is the starter circuit. The yellow/red would make sense on yours because that is what is on your "start" button. I wonder if this goes directly to the starter solenoid or if it goes to the relays first and then to the starter solenoid. If it goes to the starter solenoid, then you may have a wire from the solenoid to the latching relay which activates it when you push "start".

I think the neutral safety would just be in the solenoid to the starter but now I'm wondering if THAT is what is used to activate the latching relays for the ecm and fuel pump. I've never seen it done that way but I can't imagine that those things are powered up all the time when your engine breaker is on.


For the starboard (working) motor, when the cabin mounted "port ignition" circuit breaker is turned on, the male side of the 9 pin has 12v to the fat red, and power to two other wires. I believe it's the #7 pin (starter) and #4 pin (engine alarm), but I would have to double check tomorrow. On the non-working motor, I don't have power to anything on the male side. It's completely dead. I disconnected the neutral safety switch, but it wouldn't matter for my issue anyhow. I'm not receiving proper power before I hit the start button. I can't imagine that the NSS would effect anything before I try to start the motor?

I believe the fat red wire that comes out of the cabin mounted circuit breaker goes directly to the Ignition off button. The purple wires for the gauges (and anything else that they power, there's three of them), and the power to the ignition on button all get power from the ignition off button (which makes sense, if you're going to "open" the circuit and cut power to everything, you'd have run everything through there). Power successfully goes to the start button, via jumper wire from the ignition off switch over to the start switch, and I'm guessing from there it runs right to the starter, because I can activate the starter with the start button, and the entire 9 pin has no power anywhere. (this is also how the wiring diagram is shown on figure 3.2-6 on the owners manual, link posted below.) I'm not sure why the 9 pin would have a pin providing power to the starter, if the ignition button feeds the starter directly. Maybe my motor is wired differently than the 9 pin diagram posted on P1 of this thread. I have no description of the 9 pin, where it's at, or how its ran. Apparently there is an "EFI supplement" to the owners manual, that I do not have available to me.

I have also have no power to the engine alarm, which is supposed to be a fairly easy connection, right at the helm, but I can't seem to find the damn thing. (shown in figure 2.5-2 of the manual in the link below) I have a pic of the 1991 style engine alarm, but I don't see anything similar under my dashboard. It could be located near the 4 light/idiot light indicator (Carver/Trojan calls them "EFI indicator lights) that is mounted more toward my knees when I'm sitting at helm. It's tough to see down that far the way things are ran. I don't believe I have power to that indicator on the port side. The "Check Engine" light is illuminated when the starboard ignition breaker is on, until the motor is started, then it turns off. The light never comes on for the port motor.

As I understand it, a bad gauge or corrosion at one of the gauges can cause a loss of power to the total system, but I checked 12v power, continuity and ground wires across all gauges and everything is fine, and looks showroom condition. (no corrosion, etc.) From the gauges, the wires disappear into the abyss.

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Re: No power (electrical) 1996 454 Crusader XL TBI

Postby bud37 » June 18th, 2018, 5:26 am

390Express wrote:Source of the post As I understand it, a bad gauge or corrosion at one of the gauges can cause a loss of power to the total system, but I checked 12v power, continuity and ground wires across all gauges and everything is fine, and looks showroom condition.

Yes they can, a bad tach can ground out ign......those sync gages can do the same thing.....disconnect each one and see what happens. Try it on the good side first to make sure you are doing it right. Just because they look good doesn't really mean anything, could be internal. You need to get the correct engine side wiring schematic, but I think you have just missed a bad component here. Also continuity checks can be a bit misleading because one strand of wire will show cont. but will not carry power if corroded inside, that is why all connections need to be verified visually as well as electrically. Also try to be careful jumping in 12v here and there, remember the ECU.
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Re: No power (electrical) 1996 454 Crusader XL TBI

Postby km1125 » June 18th, 2018, 9:29 am

390Express wrote:Source of the post
For the starboard (working) motor, when the cabin mounted "port ignition" circuit breaker is turned on, the male side of the 9 pin has 12v to the fat red, and power to two other wires. I believe it's the 7 pin (starter) and 4 pin (engine alarm), but I would have to double check tomorrow. On the non-working motor, I don't have power to anything on the male side. It's completely dead. I disconnected the neutral safety switch, but it wouldn't matter for my issue anyhow. I'm not receiving proper power before I hit the start button. I can't imagine that the NSS would effect anything before I try to start the motor?

I don't know which side of the harness is the male side or female side. Which side comes from the engine?

Had to go back and re-read your thread to see your known symptoms and observations. It can get confusing when you're reading several different threads on 'no start' conditions. The fact that you can crank the engine with the 'start' button absolves the neutral safety switch and wiring and also says you have power to the helm

390Express wrote:Source of the post
I believe the fat red wire that comes out of the cabin mounted circuit breaker goes directly to the Ignition off button.

You can 100% verify that by switching off the breaker and disconnecting the wire from the ignition off button, then ohm the wire from one end to the other.

390Express wrote:Source of the post
The purple wires for the gauges (and anything else that they power, there's three of them), and the power to the ignition on button all get power from the ignition off button (which makes sense, if you're going to "open" the circuit and cut power to everything, you'd have run everything through there).

The purple wires should go to anything that needs to be on when the ignition is on. The gauges, the V-drive warning light and the engine warning alarm would be three. Do you know where your actual engine alarm is mounted? Does it have a purple wire going to it? What about the V-drive warning light? Does it have a purple wire to it? Also, that switch should be opening the circuit to the RELAYS that handle the load, not directly to the loads themselves One of the outputs of that "ignition stop" switch should be going to the relays on the engine that connect the fuel pump and ECU.

390Express wrote:Source of the post
Power successfully goes to the start button, via jumper wire from the ignition off switch over to the start switch, and I'm guessing from there it runs right to the starter, because I can activate the starter with the start button, and the entire 9 pin has no power anywhere. (this is also how the wiring diagram is shown on figure 3.2-6 on the owners manual, link posted below.) I'm not sure why the 9 pin would have a pin providing power to the starter, if the ignition button feeds the starter directly. Maybe my motor is wired differently than the 9 pin diagram posted on P1 of this thread. I have no description of the 9 pin, where it's at, or how its ran. Apparently there is an "EFI supplement" to the owners manual, that I do not have available to me.

The 9 pin should have the yellow/red wire that comes from the "engine start" to go to the starter solenoid. The 9 pin IS your connection between the engine and the boat (maybe not the only one, but the main one). It should also have the wire for the alarm and the sensors for the gauges.

390Express wrote:Source of the post
I have also have no power to the engine alarm, which is supposed to be a fairly easy connection, right at the helm, but I can't seem to find the damn thing. (shown in figure 2.5-2 of the manual in the link below) I have a pic of the 1991 style engine alarm, but I don't see anything similar under my dashboard. It could be located near the 4 light/idiot light indicator (Carver/Trojan calls them "EFI indicator lights) that is mounted more toward my knees when I'm sitting at helm. It's tough to see down that far the way things are ran. I don't believe I have power to that indicator on the port side. The "Check Engine" light is illuminated when the starboard ignition breaker is on, until the motor is started, then it turns off. The light never comes on for the port motor.

The power for the warning lights and alarm could/should be coming from the relays that are on the engine (ECU one, I'd guess).

390Express wrote:Source of the post
As I understand it, a bad gauge or corrosion at one of the gauges can cause a loss of power to the total system, but I checked 12v power, continuity and ground wires across all gauges and everything is fine, and looks showroom condition. (no corrosion, etc.) From the gauges, the wires disappear into the abyss.

A bad tach or sync gauge could definitely cause loss of spark, but that's not the problem you're having. You're having a power distribution problem to the ECU and fuel pump.

On the engine side, I'd check to see if there is a yellow/red wire going to any of the relays, or if it goes directly to the start solenoid. If it only goes to the start solenoid, then look for another wire that would come from the start solenoid and go to the relays. Compare the start solenoid wiring on your stbd and port engines.

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