Carver Owners Forum

Do any of you feel like marinas and their contracts have us by the dock lines? Mine has multiple pages of rules and regulations and basically claim no responsibility at all. If you don't winter with them, they won't guarantee your previous years slip will be yours again. And it goes on and on.

Some of the stuff makes sense to me like loosing your slip. If you leave and someone else comes along that wants that slip, I wouldn't hold it either as what guarantee do I have that you'd come back. If you don't and I turn someone away based on your promise to return, I could be sitting with an empty slip. That's lost revenue that affects the business and ultimately the rest of the boaters' slip fees.

What I don't understand is some of the stuff they TRY to get away with and think that simply by putting it on paper and have you sign it gets them off the hook. They think that because it's a clause in the contract and you sign it that it will hold up in court. My favourite is the clause that attempts to clear them of any responsibility for damage to your boat that may occur if and while they are moving it should the need arise. I think a judge would look at that and laugh even if it was part of a signed contract.

Keep in mind that there is nothing preventing you from crossing off parts of the contract that you don't agree with. I've done it before and in general they're usually pretty receptive to reasonable changes.

I have no problem guaranteeing them our return by simply paying for the slip in advance. But not allowing painting the bottom of your boat unless you hire them to do it. Wouldn't let a self employed graphic guy into the marina because he didn't have workers comp. insurance, but had liability. If the Marina isn't getting a cut, it ain't happening. Not letting a master mechanic in the marina to work on an issue they couldn't fix or screwed up worse, but the same master mechanic was allowed into the marina to reprogram a new boat they sold a year ago and they couldn't do it? One year the water level came up a lot, boats listing at the docks, questioned why no one checked the boats and adjusted them, It's not our problem, so I said it's not my problem when my 10 ton boat rips your dock off the frame. ??? Hate to say it but marinas need some over sight or state laws regulating them. Mike

I have to agree, a lot of the stuff in these contracts is is a bit on the arrogant side....near as I can tell when you offer a service for money there is some responsibility ..real customer service seems to be lacking more and more......now that being said , it is their property and business and I can see where they are trying to maximize return, but as in everything, if and when the price of gas goes back up there will be quite a reversal I think.

There are a couple things that I see overlooked by a lot of these places, safety regs, environment regs.... just take a good look around.....

Becoming more popular for marinas not allowing bottom painting. They'll site environmental reasons and I can see the point to SOME degree based on what I've seen the average boat owner do.

Getting more common for marinas not to let in outside contractors to do work that they can perform themselves or decide for themselves whether they need to call someone else in. Charging a third party a commission is becoming more prevalent up my way too, and again, I can understand the practice. It would be like someone leasing a spot to store their bike for the winter in YOUR bike shop, then bringing in their own mechanic to work on it. I don't think most businesses would allow that. It's their business and their property and they have interests to protect so I get it. There is nothing a tech hates more than an outsider coming in to do work on their turf. There's also the consideration that were it up to most boat owners, you'd have any Tom, Dick or Harry that charged the least working on the boat beside yours. Don't know about you but if there's a tech working on site next to my boat, I'd want to make sure he has the proper credentials so my boat doesn't burn up due to stupidity. Ultimately it's about revenue and keeping their own people busy/employed. While repairs represent just a portion of revenue, if they don't get it from there to help offset expenses, they'll get it by increasing slip fees! It could be worse, there are some marinas out there that don't allow customers to work on their own boats for liability reasons. Don't know how you enforce that but just sayin.

Workers comp and liability insurance are two different things so I understand that as well, and I realize how important these are to get from a contractor working on your site no matter the business. Making exceptions here could cost you your business.

Not 100% pro marina here, just looking at it from a business perspective, they are a business after all, and they're in it to make money, period. I know a lot of guys in different marinas and each has its pros and cons, none are perfect from a boater's perspective because everyone has different expectations. The trick is finding a marina that for the most part you agree with their practices. I doubt you'll find one that is perfect in all respects.

Bud I agree with the safety oversight, contract requires boat owner have a liability policy inforce at all times, no problem here, but how do I know my neighbors have it 2? Decent size fire extinguishers placed every X number of boats, the ones we carry are way 2 small if the neighbors boat has an issue. An after hours emergency number, finally got one here. They have upset a lot of big boat owners who have left. You talk about revenue, big boats leave, it takes more small boats to make up the revenue the big boat generated. Emergency ladder of X number docks, fall in how you getting out? They just don't seem to be customer orientated. Then again the owners of or marina have never been in business before and are clueless I think when it comes to customer attention and retention. Then when they screw up, claim no responsibility. Very frustrating, especially if you were in business yourself!

Litigation and government involvement have created this mess.

I guarantee you that when a "customer oriented" marina gets an order to mitigate ground or water pollution because of some boat owner doing something stupid, which costs the marina hundreds of thousands of dollars, that marina ' orientation will change quickly.

Or some boat owner borrows a ladder, falls off of it and sues the marina? Even if that litigant does not prevail, the marina still had legal costs. Who's going to pay for those?

Liability is s big problem. It's not about you, it's about the business and protecting it.

Have your boat brought to your property and do what you want. Otherwise, you are at the discretion of the business where your boat is at.

The marina should have minimal insurance requirements and be checking those policies every year at slip renewal time. This is only good however if it's enforced. That way you can be certain your neighbour has the required coverage.

It would be great if all marina owners were experienced in running one. Everybody thinks they can, and I can tell you it is not easy even when you know what you're doing. A good marina will have safety committees and meetings on a regular basis to address and implement safety related concerns. They also have suggestion boxes where boaters and employees can drop off their ideas in hopes of making everyone's stay a more pleasant and safe one. Have you thought of starting a boater's comity and having a rep meet with the marina on a scheduled basis? Marina operators will either welcome this or hate the idea. If they're a good operation that really cares about they're customers and is welcome to ideas that will help improve their business, they'll hop on the band wagon. If they don't have such programs in place, suggest it and point out the benefits! If nothing changes with respect to something that interferes with your enjoyment or safety, then perhaps that marina is not for you and you have a decision to make. If enough boats leave, they'll eventually get the idea and make changes or they'll be out of business, at the very least, they'll never grow. Good customer service; some of us get the concept, some don't. Some just have the wrong personality type or they're ignorant of the stats on what it costs to acquire vs retaining vs losing a customer. If they're too stubborn to listen, there's not much you can do.

Why would they require the bottom of the boat be pressure washed at haul out. Just to peel the bottom paint and generate work for the spring? Bottom paint is made to abate, so why not allow boat owners the option of painting their own bottoms?

mjk1040 wrote:Source of the post Why would they require the bottom of the boat be pressure washed at haul out. Just to peel the bottom paint and generate work for the spring? Bottom paint is made to abate, so why not allow boat owners the option of painting their own bottoms?

It's not that they require the bottom to be pressure washed, just that they be the ones to do it should the boater want it done. If a marina is forcing this work, I'd have to question that.

Clean marine environmental practices require that certain guidelines be followed when sanding and painting bottoms. Not allowing boaters to do it ensures guidelines are being followed, otherwise it's a free for all when using products that are potentially very unfriendly. Are they being picky? depends on your point of view. Is there a benefit for them? of course there is, they're getting more work. Is it as simple as educating the boater? in some cases maybe but here's a prime example of why you can't trust that the boater will do the right thing; many boaters are warned annually not to use green antifreeze to winterize their engines due to environmental and health concerns, yet they continue to do so. Why? I don't know, there's no logical reason for it that I can think of. The point is that they are asked not to engage in this practice but they continue to, so how can the marina trust that the boater will follow proper procedure when doing other environmentally sensitive work?

BTW, if you think marinas should be more regulated, wait until the regulators get their hands in there, I trust it'll affect the boater more than the marina but I suspect the marina will get the bad rap for it.

I probably don't have a popular take on this subject but as I stated before, the marina is a business in it to make money like any other business and some of their practices won't always be popular with everyone.