Carver Owners Forum

OK, I've read enough about other folks having their engines stall when docking... now I guess it's MY turn!! ;(

1983 Crusaders 454ci 350hp with stock carbs and mechanical fuel pumps. Upgraded to Presolite electronic distributors about 15 years ago.

A couple weeks ago I was coming back to the marina after a cruise and decided to stop at the gas dock for some fuel and a pump-out. Got all the way into the marina and right in front of the slip and went to pivot and turn in... and no pivot!! WTH!! Look down and realize that the port engine stalled. As I'm now drifting into the opposite fairway and headed the wrong direction, I use the stbd engine to straighten up the boat. Once stabilized, I restart the port engine and it just stalls again. Restart again and give it a little throttle and it runs OK, so I drop it down to idle and it stalls again. Start it up and hold it to 800rpm and it's OK... so I pull into the slip.

NEVER had an engine stall like that before. Have had to come in on one engine a few times for various reasons but haven't had it stall like that. I've owned the boat for ~25 years.

Not too long before that trip, I had felt that the idle was a bit too high, as running through the marina on both engine just at idle would kick up a little more wake than I liked. So I lowered the idle just a bit (1/8 turn maybe). OK, maybe that was too much, so I went to the engine compartment and put them back. Thought everything might be OK.

Today took a cruise across the lake. Got to the lunch location and, just as I'm maneuvering around to tie up, the port engine dies again!! ARRRRGH! Took a couple times to start it, but it eventually started. Got tied up and had lunch. Headed back to our marina and now I'm wondering if it might be a heat-related issue in the distributors, as it's almost like someone shuts the key off. So on the way back, well before we hit the 'no-wake' buoys outside the marina, I come off plane and just run on the stbd engine for a good 20 min... leaving the port engine idling about 800 in neutral. figure that would let it cool down. Get all the way into the marina and into my fairway and the port engine just stalls. I could not restart it, so I just docked with the stbd engine. Could not start port even after I docked.

Did some checking on the engine. Looks like spark is fine. Checked both at the coil output and on one of the plugs and don't see anything wrong there. I put a 'stick' in the carb vent where you check the float level and compared it to the stbd engine (stock Rochesters). Both seemed the same. Then I pushed the accelerator pump a couple times... port is pumping air but stbd pumps gas like it should. Hmmmm... maybe a float stuck CLOSED? Enough troubleshooting for today... had to head home but will be back there next week and will probably take the lid off the carbs to see what's up.

I like the way you did the troubleshoot,checked right away.... no fuel in carb narrows it down quite a lot.....probably not the float cause it ran for a while with no issue.....how old are the fuel pumps, they act silly when they get to wearing out...have a close look at your fuel lines, see if they feel the same as the other side,fittings for loose, and as every time that darn anti syphon valve.

When you say you upgraded to electronic distributors, what type of advance? Are they still mechanical or module controlled advance? If it's mechanical, check to ensure the mechanism is returning all the way to the rest position. Stalling when coming off higher rpm to idle is a common symptom of a sticking advance mechanism.

Could be anti-siphon or fuel pump as mentioned above. Also could be a problem with the idle circuit, or you're dumping too much fuel at idle and flooding her (common on these). When you start her the next day, does she start up right away or do you need to pump the throttle a few times first? Is there any fuel in the clear sight hose from the pump to the base of the carb?

bud37 wrote:I like the way you did the troubleshoot,checked right away.... no fuel in carb narrows it down quite a lot.....probably not the float cause it ran for a while with no issue.....how old are the fuel pumps, they act silly when they get to wearing out...have a close look at your fuel lines, see if they feel the same as the other side,fittings for loose, and as every time that darn anti syphon valve.

The fuel pumps were both replaced about two years ago. They replaced the original stock ones that were ~33 years old but still working fine.

The anti-siphon valve is on my list. Never had one of those off, so it might be interesting getting it loose. If it was plugged/sticking then there might be enough fuel in the line and the bowls to run the engine fine for quite a while before it ran out... which mimics the problem I'm seeing.

Viper wrote:Source of the post When you say you upgraded to electronic distributors, what type of advance? Are they still mechanical or module controlled advance? If it's mechanical, check to ensure the mechanism is returning all the way to the rest position. Stalling when coming off higher rpm to idle is a common symptom of a sticking advance mechanism.

They are mechanical advance. I did try and rotate the rotor against the springs and it appeared fine. I would think if there was a problem with them sticking then I would have had problems immediately after coming down from 'at speed'... but I didn't... it idled fine in neutral for >20 minutes.

Viper wrote:Source of the postCould be anti-siphon or fuel pump as mentioned above. Also could be a problem with the idle circuit, or you're dumping too much fuel at idle and flooding her (common on these). When you start her the next day, does she start up right away or do you need to pump the throttle a few times first? Is there any fuel in the clear sight hose from the pump to the base of the carb?

Hasn't happened enough to do the 'next day' test. I don't have the clear sight hose on these... just the plug between the two diaphragms. I was going to add that when I put the new pumps on a couple years ago, but couldn't find small enough hose bibs that fit the carb (I probably didn't look too hard though)

Something else came to mind.....when you take the Anti-siphon valve out to check, before you re install...put a piece of hose on the tank side and blow into the tank and see if there is resistance and bubbling or the air just goes in freely...that should check your dip tube as well......if no resistance at all then maybe pull dip tube and check for holes......a little more thoughts ( raining again here ).

km1125 wrote:Source of the post OK, I've read enough about other folks having their engines stall when docking... now I guess it's MY turn!! ;(

So, did you ever find the problem ?

bud37 wrote:Source of the post

km1125 wrote:Source of the post OK, I've read enough about other folks having their engines stall when docking... now I guess it's MY turn!! ;(

So, did you ever find the problem ?

Not quite yet. I am leaning towards it being the anti-siphon valve.

I did a lot of other work that I'd been planning on doing. I replaced all the plugs and did a compression test on all cylinders. I did a leak-down on a few but since I didn't have anything to manually turn the crank the engine kept turning when I put pressure in to test the others so I just stopped trying. I also replaced the port thermostat, as that engine wouldn't come up to temp. While in there, I also did some idle speed and mixture adjustments. I also replaced the main Port Fuel filter. When I took the old one off, it was clean but it was only half full of fuel, hence why I'm leaning to the anti-siphon valve.

My engines are setup with switches so either engine can come from either tank. There are also independent lines from each tank to the switches, each with a different anti-siphon valve. So I switched the Port Engine to run on the Starboard tank and the Starboard engine to run on the Port tank. No stalling.

I am curious ( nosey ) , what kind of numbers did you get on the cylinders you did get the leak down on?.Its got nothing to do with your issue there ,I would be interested to know the percentage for a well used engine, even cold won't be much different.

bud37 wrote:Source of the post Curious , what kind of numbers did you get on the cylinders you did get the leak down on?.Its got nothing to do with your issue there ,I would be interested to know the percentage for a well used engine, even cold won't be much different.

The two that I feel were good tests were 4% and 5%. The third I did was 14%, but I'm not sure that was even at TDC.

The compression tests all were good... 130-145 just like the book says. I only had two test below 140... one a 130 and one a 135.

The engines weren't hot, but were warm. The engine were just run on idle for a bit and the port thermostat was stuck open so that engine never came up to temp. By the time I got around to some of the cylinders the engine had cooled quite a bit. The engine have about 1200 hrs on them and have run Mobil1 since about 350 hrs.

I'm going to try to re-do the leakdown someday. I have to figure out a jig to be able to turn the engine over manually, or use a starter button (didn't have one of those at the boat when I was doing the test)

You can buy a crank hub socket to turn the engine on ebay cheap.
Pull the belts off, remove the pulley on the dampener, remove the dampener, slide the hub socket on, and turn away.
Make sure you remove the socket wrench before you apply air. 100psi on 12.5" of surface area could spin that wrench and hurt something.