Carver Owners Forum

I recently purchased a 390 Trojan Express (made by Carver, I believe) at auction. I am unsure if it was properly winterized. I'm expecting some bugs that need to be worked out once I get her wet, but I'm trying to do as much preventative maintenance, and address as many issues as possible before I splash her.

Upon inspecting the Walter V Drive gearboxes, I noticed that the gear oil was slightly milky. It wasn't a total milkshake, it just had some strands of milky residue on the dipstick. What are the chances that the gearboxes were not properly winterized, and the oil cooler freeze cracked? (the inlet was in the open position, and the hoses are still attached, and fine, with no water or antifreeze in them) We had a rough winter and spring in MI, and it's not uncommon for a small amount of milk to form from condensation.

If a busted oil cooler is a likely issue, how difficult will it be to pull the top plate off, and inspect the same? Does anyone have any pics or advice? The water inlet for the coolant lines was in the open position, no water in the lines, and the lines are in good shape. The motors were properly winterized, and are not freeze cracked, as was the generator. Is SAE 30 the proper lube for the gear boxes? Any recommended brands, or is any quality oil acceptable?

Do these gearboxes have a water pump that draws water, or do they rely on the propulsion of the boat to draw water from the lake? I didn't see any pump on the lines.

Hey 390Express; if u google ur drives all ur questions will be answered. I may think the milky oil could be just from condensation. Since they take 30W non detergent oil, I would drain them, refill them and run them. The only way major water could get in there is at the cooler. And if that is the case, u'll be looking at replacing ur coolers. And these coolers are cooled from the engine raw water cooling system not a separate system.

It would help to know exactly which model Walter drive you have. Do you have the unit that's separate from the engine transmission and is hooked up by a drive shaft with u-joints?

390Express wrote:Source of the post......a 390 Trojan Express (made by Carver, I believe)......

Correct. If my history serves me right, nothing about this model is original to the Trojan design except the name.

390Express wrote:Source of the post.......Upon inspecting the Walter V Drive gearboxes, I noticed that the gear oil was slightly milky. It wasn't a total milkshake, it just had some strands of milky residue on the dipstick. What are the chances that the gearboxes were not properly winterized, and the oil cooler freeze cracked? .... how difficult will it be to pull the top plate off, and inspect the same? .....

Some condensation is not uncommon but if there is any suspicion of frost damage, you should pressure test the raw water side of the drive. You don't want to run it if there's a crack in the cooling side of the housing, it'll eventually fail and leave you stranded somewhere. Not that difficult to pull off the top plate but you should pressure test before you do that.

390Express wrote:Source of the post.....Is SAE 30 the proper lube for the gear boxes?......

YES

390Express wrote:Source of the post...... Do these gearboxes have a water pump that draws water, or do they rely on the propulsion of the boat to draw water from the lake? I didn't see any pump on the lines.

They do not have their own water pump. The isolated Walter drives were plumbed a couple of different ways so it depends on how the OEM set them up; In some applications, the raw water pump on the engine draws water through the drive then on to the engine. This would remove heat from the drive first before the water heads to the engine cooling system. The other way they were plumbed was the water would go through an intake, up through the unit, then straight back down to a separate thru-hull outlet. One scoop would face fore and the other aft. Cooling water would only go through the unit while the vessel was underway in forward or reverse, no pump involved. The motion of the vessel would force water through the unit. Since no heat is generated in neutral, this worked just fine. There would be a separate intake for the engine.

Hi 390 express. There can be damage from a hard freeze to the valves. There is a small bolt/screw below the ball valve that drains the valve body. Next year be sure to drain the water input valves. The oil and transmission coolers use fresh water on the input side. The rest should be engine coolant. If the boat is new to you a back flush of the coolers will reveal the remnants of old failed impellers. Be sure and have the gaskets on hand first. Same with the engine heat exchangers. If the boat was out of the water for the winter there is a higher probability of damage otherwise the heat from the hull (in the water) limits the damage. It's a low tech job and when you install new impellers just back flush the heat exchangers. My gear drives (not V drives but straight through) uses gear lube. If I would see a milky fluid I would be slightly alarmed. Just drain and refill these but look for signs of water entry. Do not run the boat without changing this fluid. With a good suction oil pump you can drain these V drives. You will also have a torque converter that takes ATF. That one is really hard to do and even if the boat was partially submerged your torque converters may be ok. Same applies to the generator. Best to assume partial submersion since you bought as salvage. A little effort here is well worth the work.
'I will look for future posts and help as much as possible,

Lobscouser

As I post earlier, we need more info about the the type of Walter drives in question. If they're the older isolated models, separate oil coolers don't apply, their cooling is self contained as part of the drive itself.

No torque converters applicable here. Are you referring to a torque converter you'd find on an automotive transmission?

Viper wrote:Source of the post It would help to know exactly which model Walter drive you have. Do you have the unit that's separate from the engine transmission and is hooked up by a drive shaft with u-joints?

Yup, tried to attach a pic below. We'll see how it goes.

390Express wrote:Source of the postSome condensation is not uncommon but if there is any suspicion of frost damage, you should pressure test the raw water side of the drive. You don't want to run it if there's a crack in the cooling side of the housing, it'll eventually fail and leave you stranded somewhere. Not that difficult to pull off the top plate but you should pressure test before you do that.

What is the best way to pressure test the gearbox with no... pressure? The boat is miles away from water and electricity. I may be able to plug one end and blow into the other, but I'm not sure what extent that will help anything. The hoses are long and large, (no low brow jokes!) and my lungs are only so big... Is the extent of the fresh water cooling system simply the two hoses and the small snake looking cooler at the top, under the 6 bolts (I haven't removed my top cover to access the cooler, I just googled the cooler)? And, if so, is it as simple as removing those 6 bolts to remove the oil cooler, or is it more involved than that? I would like to try to remove the oil cooler and take it back to the shop to pressure test it, as long as it isn't one of those deals that will "never go back together the same again."

390Express wrote:Source of the postThe other way they were plumbed was the water would go through an intake, up through the unit, then straight back down to a separate thru-hull outlet. One scoop would face fore and the other aft. Cooling water would only go through the unit while the vessel was underway in forward or reverse, no pump involved. The motion of the vessel would force water through the unit. Since no heat is generated in neutral, this worked just fine. There would be a separate intake for the engine.

I believe this is how mine are plumbed. I have a separate sea strainer on the line, and a separate inlet/outlet, with shutoff valves. The valves were left open, and the strainers have been drained. The drive is red tagged "ok for shipping." Given that the cooler is the highest point in the system, the cooler isn't all that big, that there are few restrictions in the cooler setup for water to "stand", the system was left open, and it was hauled 400 miles up I-75 with the system open drawing air, I'm optimistic that even if not winterized, it would have drained naturally, or any water that did freeze would have had an easier place to go, than cracking the oil cooler.

Can anyone tell me what make/model transmission I have based on the pic (Paragon, Borg Warner, Walter, etc.). We've had a ton of old school TRS offshores. I'm familiar with the BW transmission, but this one looks a bit different. After I'm confident that the Walter V Drive gearbox is in good order, I'll be looking into the transmission next.

Eternally grateful for the replies thus far. Thanks fellow forum members!

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The sea strainer appears to be full of pink antifreeze! If that's the case I'd bet they winterized them. That sure is an animal I haven't seen before!

Looks like a velvet drive, my guess from the pic angle .......should be an id plate on there by the dipstick ???, maybe painted over......

mjk1040 wrote:Source of the post The sea strainer appears to be full of pink antifreeze! If that's the case I'd bet they winterized them. That sure is an animal I haven't seen before!

Ha, I think it's just rusty/crusty with some residue in there. I believe they're dry, but I'll check them next time I'm there. It's finally starting to warm up. I've been spending an hour here and there, freezing my tail off, crammed in the bilge, trying to do as much as possible. Our "spring" has been horrible here in MI.

bud37 wrote:Source of the post Looks like a velvet drive, my guess from the pic angle .......should be an id plate on there by the dipstick ???, maybe painted over......

Ty, it looks smaller than my old BW velvet drive, and a slightly different dipstick configuration, but my old trans was more than a decade older. I'll look for an ID plate. What's the best way to drain the trains fluid completely (or flush)? I'd like to do more than the dipstick extraction if possible. I'm looking to have it as right as possible when it hits the water. I'm hoping to not have to spend $300+ to haul it back out once it hits water.