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Suggested Oil for 1997 Crusader 454 XLi's

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Wayne162
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Suggested Oil for 1997 Crusader 454 XLi's

Postby Wayne162 » December 26th, 2015, 9:53 pm

I am sure that their have been past discussion on this topic but here go's anyway.
I am looking for a good marine grade oil for my boat's power plant's, the owners manual advises SAE 40 but I like my synthetics and run Amsoil in my Ford 7.3 L. After lengthy reading I am not sure what is best as synthetics in an older motor can have blow-by dependent on wear, and base oils lack the superior lubricating qualities offered by synthetics. Do marine oils contain added rust inhibitors over conventional automotive oils? I question the previous owners maintenance as they could not tell me what oil they used in these motors, and two year old marine batteries had no electrolytes. I am a little intense on the service of my equipment and a hands on type that most likely stayed with me since the Marines. Any guidance is appreciated, looking for a good reasonably priced oil options for these motors. Thanks All

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Suggested Oil for 1997 Crusader 454 XLi's

Postby waybomb » December 27th, 2015, 10:03 am

If you want to run synthetics, go for it.
Not all synthetics are created equal. Not all are PAO base stocks. Or have have PAO but have lesser grades as well.

I think proven performance is what to look at though. You could go nuts reading specs.

My take:
I use Rotella in all my boat engines. Change the oil in 10 hours on PV, 50 hours the rest. I run 15/40. No Issues.

On PV I add 2 points of the old GM break-in lube. I have cases of it that I have bought over time. This is the one with the heavy ZDDP content. The one no longer available since it fouls catalytic converters. But only on PV.

I use Mobil 1 0-30 in my benzes. My last daily driver had 357,000+ miles on it when I sold it. I changed the oil only when FSS said it was due, and that was typically between 15,000 and 18,000 miles. The car is still running around town, no smoking, no indication the engines had that many miles.

That's my 2 cents on it.

ps - In all my years of messing with engines, no matter what oil I used, including Walmart brand, I have never had an oil related failure on any engine. Does anybody know anybody that actually had an oil related failure, the failure directly linked to the oil used, not how often it was replaced?

Spend your money wisely!
Thanks
Fred
1964 Barron Flatbottom with BBC Chevy
1969 Glaspar Avalon /1969 Johnson Electromatic 85
1987 Carver Mariner
1988 Cougar Kevlar 46' with triple blown 572s
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Topic author United States of America
Wayne162
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Suggested Oil for 1997 Crusader 454 XLi's

Postby Wayne162 » December 27th, 2015, 12:23 pm

Thanks Waybomb. What Rotella do you use in your marine applications, synthetic or regular grade? What do you mean by PAO?
I have a friend that has his own heavy equipment company in NJ. Last summer he tested the oil in his 90's Ford F-250 TD at 10,000 as he runs Rotella synthetic from Wal-Mart. This truck transports heavy equipment so needless to say they are hard miles on this oil. The results were impressive, the lab told him he was good to go for another 10,000 as the oil was still viable and within normal ranges.

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Suggested Oil for 1997 Crusader 454 XLi's

Postby waybomb » December 27th, 2015, 5:01 pm

Regular old Rotella in the older engines. It's like 17 bucks for a 5 quart Walmart jug. PV takes 8 1/2 of them.

I buy the Mobil 1 at Walmart too, about 26 bucks for a 5 quart jug. The Benzes take 8 quarts each.

If you are going for extended service and use oil sampling as a predictive maintenance tool and a measurement for preventative maintenance, I' believe M1 is the way to go. If you are changing on a fixed period, then dino is the way I go.

PAO is a certain type of Synthetic base stock.
Thanks
Fred
1964 Barron Flatbottom with BBC Chevy
1969 Glaspar Avalon /1969 Johnson Electromatic 85
1987 Carver Mariner
1988 Cougar Kevlar 46' with triple blown 572s
http://s4.beta.photobucket.com/user/waybomb/library/
Past - 1988 2807, 1989 4207 Aft
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Wayne162
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Suggested Oil for 1997 Crusader 454 XLi's

Postby Wayne162 » December 27th, 2015, 7:25 pm

I was just on the phone with a friend that has 454's in a 31' Scarab and also a 27' Cigarette. He suggested Mobile Delvac for the zinc then he told me to hold up because when he looked, and Mobile had no zinc on the datasheet online. He advises to get an oil with Zinc and Phosphorous to lubricate the cam's. So I am researching again. Attached is an article that I came across on the subject.

Think About Your Zinc

Have you heard about the zinc problem with modern motor oils? Many classic car owners and racers have experienced camshaft failures due to decreased zinc levels in modern motor oils.

Now, with levels about to change again this fall, it’s more important than ever for engine builders to think about their zinc.

If you’ve not had the pleasure of having your camshaft go flat due to modern motor oils, consider yourself very fortunate. As an owner of an engine parts warehouse, I’ve seen hundreds of perfectly good camshafts ruined by modern motor oils.

So, when I read about the new API SN motor oil coming out this fall, I started talking to the engine builders we supply parts to. They all said the same thing: car owners don’t know much about these modern motor oils and the problems they can cause in classic cars and racecars.

In many cases, modern motor oils are simply not good for classic hot rods and race cars. Here’s why:

“Zinc,” or ZDDP as it is commonly referred to, in motor oils is a type of chemical called Zinc DialkylDithioPhosphate. “Zinc” has been the most common anti-wear additive used in motor oils for the last 60 years. (I’ll just call it ‘zinc’ for the rest of this article.)

Zinc is a remarkable chemical that protects engine parts from metal-to-metal contact under heavy loads. It works by creating a film on the iron and steel parts in an engine.

Unfortunately, zinc also creates a film inside modern three-way catalytic converters. This “Zinc Poisoning” limits three-way catalytic converter life to around 70,000 miles.

The Federal Environmental Protection Agency mandates that car manufacturers warranty three-way catalytic converters on new cars built since 2004 for 120,000 miles. To achieve this goal, the car manufacturers worked with the American Petroleum Institute to create new, lower-zinc oils that allow three-way catalytic converters to live longer.

These new “Lower Emissions” oils have extended catalytic converter life, but they have shortened the life of flat-tappet camshafts.

Not long after these modern motor oils with less zinc hit the market, we started to notice an increase in flat-tappet camshaft failures. At first, it was the race engine builders, so we shrugged it off as some new “trick” the race guys were doing that caused the problem. Then we started to see stock flat tappet camshafts going flat.

Things got ugly really fast. Every camshaft company started researching the problem. So did the Automotive Engine Rebuilders Association. Everybody wanted to know: why are cams going flat?

The answer was less zinc.

Turns out, lower zinc oils work just fine in modern production car engines with overhead cams and roller lifters. These modern engines don’t rev past 5,000 rpm.

On the other hand, most hot rod and race motors have push rods and flat tappet lifters, and rev beyond 5,000 rpm. These engines need motor oil with more zinc.

The good news is that “High Zinc” oils are available.

If you have a classic car or racecar, I highly recommend using a higher-zinc oil. We use the Joe Gibbs brand, and there are others also available.

We have seen a dramatic reduction in camshaft problems when our engine builders started using higher-zinc oils designed for older engines.

Again, if you’ve not had any problems so far, consider yourself very lucky. But with the new formulas scheduled to be released this fall, switching to a high-zinc oil before the new API SN oils hit the shelves is like an insurance policy you’ll be happy you have.

We like selling engine parts, but I hate seeing good parts go bad—especially when they don’t have to.

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Suggested Oil for 1997 Crusader 454 XLi's

Postby waybomb » December 27th, 2015, 8:18 pm

Settle your mind. Call crusader and ask what they suggest these days.

PV gets its zink from the break in lube.
Thanks
Fred
1964 Barron Flatbottom with BBC Chevy
1969 Glaspar Avalon /1969 Johnson Electromatic 85
1987 Carver Mariner
1988 Cougar Kevlar 46' with triple blown 572s
http://s4.beta.photobucket.com/user/waybomb/library/
Past - 1988 2807, 1989 4207 Aft
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Topic author United States of America
Wayne162
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Suggested Oil for 1997 Crusader 454 XLi's

Postby Wayne162 » December 27th, 2015, 10:03 pm

I Plan too. I have found that Lucas oil has a nice product line in the midst of all this. I have included a link to the zinc infused product line. Thanks for the advice!

http://lucasoil.com/pdf/Zinc_Values_MotorcycleOil.pdf
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Suggested Oil for 1997 Crusader 454 XLi's

Postby Lyndon670 » December 29th, 2015, 9:03 am

Straight 30 with Lucas Stabilizer. I used it in my 8.1's in my Silverton for years.

Putting synthetic in a boat motor doesn't make sense to me outside of a go-fast boat that is running at close to WOT all the time - you simply won't get the benefit of the oil if you change it at the end of each season.
Lyndon,
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Topic author United States of America
Wayne162
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Suggested Oil for 1997 Crusader 454 XLi's

Postby Wayne162 » December 30th, 2015, 11:37 am

I agree to a point on this Lyndon670. My concern is with the older motors and the loss of zinc added to oil for lubrication due to emission standards for newer models. To be honest, 454's are hot rod motors adjusted for marine use. Alot of guys with those same motors on the street have experienced upper end damage from the change in oil consistency with the reduction or removal of lubricating zinc and phosphorous from base grade oil. I have attached a response from Mobil Exxon customer service, I asked what the zinc/phosphorous current levels were for Mobil Delvac oil. Their response was a soft shoe tap around no answer.

"I contacted the Exxon Mobil Technical Support Center, which advised that Commercial Vehicle lubricants such as the Delvac brand, do not reference the below requested information on the Data Sheets. It was advised that there is information listed in Section 15 of the Safety Data Sheet, but they cannot provide the information verbally.
I have attached the Safety Data Sheet for your review, to assist with answering your question. Unfortunately, the detail was not provided to me to directly answer the request.
Please let me know if I can be of further assistance".

The safety data sheet provided no info, it was a dead end answer. When I checked the site for Lucas oil, they provided the complete breakdown of the information by oil type and weight for every product. I have no ties to Lucas Oil and never have used it but the company appears to be stand-up about their products. They do fortify with zinc.

BTW, I am trying Noflex in my tanks from your posted recommendation. It seems better but I had sludge build up from previous owners and i'm waiting to see if it cuts through and cleans it out. Thank you
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Suggested Oil for 1997 Crusader 454 XLi's

Postby Lyndon670 » December 31st, 2015, 4:47 pm

Wayne, completely agree with you re the 454. My point was more so towards the amount of hours on the 454. A big block that is new or freshly rebuilt could/would benefit from synthetic. But a 1000 hr engine of any displacement really won't see a measureable benefit. The wear on the rods, bearings, crank, valves etc will have already aged the components.

Another great trick for your holding tank is the ice cube and laundry detergent trick. It will advance the cleaning if you are trying to defeat the sludge. Fill your tank to 1/4 of water, add 50 lbs of cubed ice and a box of laundry detergent. Then go for a cruise. The sloshing around with the ice cubes will do a great job. Then you can add your Noflex.
Lyndon,
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FOXY JOE
Volvo 7.4TAMD
Queens Cove Marina
Georgian Bay, Ontario

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