Regarding Pink Stuff

[denpooch]

I picked up Prestone Waterline Antifreeze.
They boast a 'No Burst' guarantee down to -100! Here is my question, especially for our friends in Canada who deal with cold temperatures.
In the directions and in bold capital letters it states: NOT TO BE USED AS A WINTERIZING FLUID IN GASOLINE OR DIESEL ENGINES.
Why do you think they made this statement?
I tried calling them couple of times, left message and never heard back. Is it safe to use this pink for our 'fresh water cooled' engines? Ingredients contain ethanol, propylene alcohol and potassium hydroxide.
My best guess is that they want to protect themselves from any lawsuits that may arise from a problem with a cracked engine block.
What say you? Would you guys use it for engines up north?

[Midnightsun]

I would say the vast majority use this type of antifreeze in boat engines. In fact this year I could not get the non alcohol based stuff so I used it.

The reason it is not engine recommended is there usually are no corrosion inhibitors and the alcohol will dry out rubber components. Not to worry, you can use it. Not the ideal stuff but it will still work fine.

This is what one should use for everything IMHO. http://www.starbrite.com/item/50-non-to ... -freeze-pg

[km1125]

Source of the post I picked up Prestone Waterline Antifreeze.
They boast a 'No Burst' guarantee down to -100! Here is my question, especially for our friends in Canada who deal with cold temperatures.
In the directions and in bold capital letters it states: NOT TO BE USED AS A WINTERIZING FLUID IN GASOLINE OR DIESEL ENGINES.
Why do you think they made this statement?
I tried calling them couple of times, left message and never heard back. Is it safe to use this pink for our 'fresh water cooled' engines? Ingredients contain ethanol, propylene alcohol and potassium hydroxide.
My best guess is that they want to protect themselves from any lawsuits that may arise from a problem with a cracked engine block.
What say you? Would you guys use it for engines up north?

It has a VERY high concentration of alcohol (like 35%!) and the rest is mostly water. There is a tiny bit of PG and some Glycerin.

[Viper]

In my area of southern Ontario, -50 deg antifreeze is just fine.

There's a reason why they make that statement on the label of regular plumbing antifreeze; because that's not what that stuff is formulated for. There's way too much alcohol in the cheap stuff, that's why it's so cheap, alcohol doesn't cost much. Not good for anything with rubber such as impellers, pump diaphragms, toilets, ice makers, washer/dryers, dishwashers, most metals found in heat exchangers, air conditioners, engines, etc. There's no lubricating properties, and it evaporates because of the alcohol content which is not ideal as that promotes rust in some hardware. Not good for anything but plastic lines IMO.

Some people say they've been using the cheap stuff for ever with no ill effects but I gotta wonder how much have they've actually looked into it. I've seen comparisons and it's just not worth it for me personally but everyone has their own comfort level. The proper stuff is definitely more expensive but that's because of what goes into it.

I'll say it again that it never ceases to amaze me how folks will spend hundreds of thousands or millions on a boat then cheap out on the most basic maintenance products designed to keep all their expensive equipment running properly. I don't get it.

[bud37]

Source of the post What say you? Would you guys use it for engines up north?

Simple answer.....NO......for reasons expressed above.

[denpooch]

Thanks guys.
Time to go shopping !

[Viper]

Winter Proof actually makes a new formulation now (Marine) that states it's "Safe for engines." I haven't seen, read about or tried it yet so can't comment on it but I do know if comes at a lower price than the typical engine/systems safe brands.

[Phrancus]

Last year I winterized my boat and wondered why this was not prepared for by design. Draining the system was in the engine's manual but still not an easy job: awkward locations of sensitive (soft copper drain plugs that easily snap off) plugs that drain all over the place.

In practice one wants to replace fluid in confined spaces by something that does not expand under freezing/thawing conditions. So we drain water and add something with such characteristics. In effect we pump it into a circuit that normally sucks through an inlet and out through an exhaust. Preferably we let the engine pump that so the fluids do not get pumped backwards into cylinders and such dreadful effects.

Now why on earth did they not add some piping to do this effectively and comfortably? Like a way to create an fluid circuit that allows control of the in- and outlet. For example: near the outlet install something to switch from exhaust to outside to a hose that leads to an accesible space. And the same from the inlet. Add a big bucket to put those hoses into and start flushing the system with anti-freeze. Drain it first if you want/need a high concentration or don't if you don't need that.
(sterndrives drain out by themselves when left vertically on the dry, impellers to be removed after the pumping, the extra valves to switch direction may need some consideration but with careful design there should be no water left in those to freeze.

For luxury you can do some smart disconnecting those inlets (and their valves) so you can leave them dry. Even a fixed tank for the anti-freeze can be made so you can re-use it for a couple of years (the ones with little alcohol as it evaporates)

Oh well, sold the boat so no winterization for me this year. Haven't found its successor yet either.

Small tip for those in mild climates: sunflower-oil (or various of that sort) does not freeze and does float on water. So you can pour it into a through-hull: it pushes the water down so that hose and its valve are oil-filled which does not freeze. Did that when ours had to remain in the water and the toilet valve was stuck open. Worked like a charm. Stop filling when you see colourful water outside the boat. Not harmful to the environment if you use such an oil type. Not agressive to gaskets or plastic hoses/pipes.

For those who are about to have the boat lifted: you may want to consider a tilt on its final location so that any water moves aft as much as possible. Models vary so perhaps not for each model a good idea. But for my 26 it was quite effective to have a log under the front of the support to have a good access to water in the bilge.

[km1125]

Source of the post Last year I winterized my boat and wondered why this was not prepared for by design. Draining the system was in the engine's manual but still not an easy job: awkward locations of sensitive (soft copper drain plugs that easily snap off) plugs that drain all over the place. ....

One year I put in hose barbs to replace the engine block drain plugs because they were so hard to get to. All the other plugs (manifolds and risers) were pretty easy. I ran a hose about 2-3' from each hose barb to the front of the engine were it was easy to access, then spliced them together with a splice. When I went to drain the engines, all I had to do was pull apart that splice. I could take a long wire and stick it up the hose to make sure I dislodged any debris that might have plugged the passage and it took SECONDS to do both engines. Then I plugged them back together and sucked antifreeze in the raw water pump to fill the block, oil coolers and raw water passages. Last all I had to do was drain the manifolds and risers which were pretty easy.

[Viper]

Source of the post.... I could take a long wire and stick it up the hose to make sure I dislodged any debris that might have plugged the passage.....

This is very important. You'd be surprised how much debris and rust can collect at the drain ports preventing the system from draining properly. Merc has had various forms of single point central drainage systems on their engines for years, it makes it really easy to drain but you can't tell if you've drained everything properly unless you collect all the water you've drained and measure the amount. It also makes it very difficult to clear the drains of debris. Under the worst conditions and boating habits, you should clear them every season but that's not so easy to do with a central drainage system in place.