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Multiple, separate problems, starting with smoke at 2500+RPM

GAS engine, transmission and generator repair and maintenance discussion forum.
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Topic author United States of America
Seif911
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Multiple, separate problems, starting with smoke at 2500+RPM

Postby Seif911 » April 6th, 2014, 9:11 am

Good Morning All. It has been a while. So I actually stored my Carver in my yard from last fall. I am trying to give it a quick, intensive make over and improve the performance before it hits the water in a month. I have quick a few problems I am trying to address.

1. Last year I had smoke or steam coming out of the exhaust at 2500+ RPM's. We had quick a few ideas out there, not sure which ones I hit. My local mechanic told me to change out my propellers on the water pumps, since they are well over 5 years old. I will be doing that this week. He thinks it was steam and not smoke. It always had a smell of exhaust but I guess if the water was low, maybe that would make sense. Any other ideas? It was both engines. I am also changing out the flappers and they stay open, kind of doubt this will help me but why not.

2. The port engine could not go higher than 3200 RPM's. The starboard could go to 3600+ with no issues, while the port would hold at 3200. I have brand new water separators/fuel filters. The mechanic thought I should check he electrical side starting with the timing. I can't do that until next month when we warm up. Any other thoughts? I am worried about the carbs being dirty since this boat sat for 5 years, and had lilt hours I the past 11 years.

3. The starters...when I turn the key, nothing happens, not even a click or try. I back off and the turn the key again, maybe 6-12 times and then it engages and works. It always makes me nervous. This is both engines. The mechanic seems to think it is the relays, so I am changing that out this week. Any other thoughts?

4. Walter V-Drive warning light goes off for the port side. I believe this is a low oil level warning. I have checked the oil multiple times and it is good, though it is kind of nasty looking...kind of like bad gas sitting in a old carb. Any thoughts? Should I change this oil out for good measure? How and what do I replace it with?

Any other thoughts about other things I should address while it is in my yard?

Thanks,

Steve
Thanks,
Steve

22' Godfrey Hurricane Fun Deck, Fiberglass hull, 175 HP, Deck boat
24' Chrysler Cruiseliner III (Lonestar), 120 HP, Aluminum Hull, Cabin, 1968
33' Carver Mariner, fiberglass hull, 520 HP, Yacht, 1977

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waybomb
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Vessel Info: 1987 3697 Carver Mariner
1988 Cougar 46 Kevlar Vee offshore
1969 15' Glaspar / 1969 Johnson Electrmatic 85
1964 Barron Flat bottom drag boat
A couple of dinghies
Location: Saint Joseph and Trenton, MI
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Re: Multiple, separate problems, starting with smoke at 2500

Postby waybomb » April 6th, 2014, 1:21 pm

2) also check anti siphon valves. They can restrict fuel flowe
3) You can change lots of parts diagnosing this way. Get a voltmeter or simple testlight and start tracking it down.
4) Walter light should be lit to about 800-1000 rpm. Then go off. That's normal. You can go to their website and download the manual.

While on the hard, tighten up all the below-waterline hardware. Inspect all the thoughhulls - if you have plastic ones, they are probably britle and need replacement.
Thanks
Fred
1964 Barron Flatbottom with BBC Chevy
1969 Glaspar Avalon /1969 Johnson Electromatic 85
1987 Carver Mariner
1988 Cougar Kevlar 46' with triple blown 572s
http://s4.beta.photobucket.com/user/waybomb/library/
Past - 1988 2807, 1989 4207 Aft
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Re: Multiple, separate problems, starting with smoke at 2500

Postby Solana » April 7th, 2014, 1:12 am

1. The exhaust steam is a result of exhaust manifolds and risers leaking water into the exhaust. The exhaust manifolds only last for about 5-6 years then they must be replaced (at least in salt water boats, not sure how long for fresh water boats). Exhaust "steam" is a classic symptom of this problem. The longer you wait the more damage it could do to your engine. Check your motor oil, if it looks "milky" you've waited too long.

2. The pitch on your propellers probably isn't the same, or one could have minor damage. A quick way to find out and to resolve any unknowns is to switch the props out and see if the problem follows the propellers. If so, the propellers can be resurfaced and re- pitched at any propeller shop . Usually at about half the cost of new propellers.

3. Obviously this is an electrical issue. I would be checking a lot of ground wires with a voltmeter. The odd thing is that it's happening to both motors! Each motor is independent of one another and seldom or never should be having the same electrical problem at the same time, very unusual. I might pull the batteries and take them to an auto parts house & have them stress tested and see how they do.

4. I believe that when you're saying the light goes off, that you're actually saying that the light turns on? If so that's normal up to about 1200 RPMs while in gear. After 1200 RPMs and above, the light should turn "off". As far as your starboard side goes, it should be doing the exact same thing that I mentioned. If it's not, your light bulb is probably just burned out or not hooked up correctly.

Hope this helps.
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Topic author United States of America
Seif911
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Re: Multiple, separate problems, starting with smoke at 2500

Postby Seif911 » April 7th, 2014, 10:33 am

Morn’ All,

I have new anti-siphon valves from last year, and yes, they were very bad. It took forever to try to start the engines.
I will try the multimeter method once it warms up a little bit.
The light for the Walter V-Drives, seems like you both agree and that it is not a problem. I will check the bulb on the Starboard side to see if it is actually out as I should expect to see the warning light at low RPM’s.
I do have some new through hulls that I am going to put in. Tighten up below water hardware? Do I have to back out any loose hardware and reseal them? I also have some new bottom paint. Should I be touching the below water line hardware or just paint around and over it?
Uggg….exhaust manifolds, that is the 3rd or 4th time I have heard that and they must be maybe 12 years old, min. I looked up the price on these and it appears that it would be a good $1000. Is there any way to inspect these before I put that kind of $$$ out? Can I pull them off and inspect them? I have the same issue with my Chrysler Cruiseliner and I was thinking about soaking it in acid, clean it with water afterwards and then run a primer through it. I am probably just prolonging a bigger problem.
Thanks,
Steve

22' Godfrey Hurricane Fun Deck, Fiberglass hull, 175 HP, Deck boat
24' Chrysler Cruiseliner III (Lonestar), 120 HP, Aluminum Hull, Cabin, 1968
33' Carver Mariner, fiberglass hull, 520 HP, Yacht, 1977
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waybomb
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Vessel Info: 1987 3697 Carver Mariner
1988 Cougar 46 Kevlar Vee offshore
1969 15' Glaspar / 1969 Johnson Electrmatic 85
1964 Barron Flat bottom drag boat
A couple of dinghies
Location: Saint Joseph and Trenton, MI
Has thanked: 39 times
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Re: Multiple, separate problems, starting with smoke at 2500

Postby waybomb » April 7th, 2014, 1:07 pm

If the hardware is not leaking, I'd just tighten it all up. If leaking, then you'll probably have to remove and re-bed.
Thanks
Fred
1964 Barron Flatbottom with BBC Chevy
1969 Glaspar Avalon /1969 Johnson Electromatic 85
1987 Carver Mariner
1988 Cougar Kevlar 46' with triple blown 572s
http://s4.beta.photobucket.com/user/waybomb/library/
Past - 1988 2807, 1989 4207 Aft
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Re: Multiple, separate problems, starting with smoke at 2500

Postby eric_b » April 7th, 2014, 4:56 pm

Steve,

The life expenctancy for manifolds and risers in fresh water is a lot longer than salt water. Most boats see over 20 years on them. They might still be problematic, but if your boat has always been a freshwater boat, it is unlikely that this is the issue. Impellers are a more likely culprit.
1986 Carver 3227 Convertible
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United States of America
waybomb
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Posts: 1920
Joined: February 5th, 2013, 9:24 pm
Vessel Info: 1987 3697 Carver Mariner
1988 Cougar 46 Kevlar Vee offshore
1969 15' Glaspar / 1969 Johnson Electrmatic 85
1964 Barron Flat bottom drag boat
A couple of dinghies
Location: Saint Joseph and Trenton, MI
Has thanked: 39 times
Been thanked: 278 times

Re: Multiple, separate problems, starting with smoke at 2500

Postby waybomb » April 7th, 2014, 6:48 pm

My old 2807 Riviera was in Lake Michigan for 6 years, brackish Chesepeake for 3 years, Pacific Ocean for 3 years, and then the young lady that bought it was in river water for at least 10 years, and none of us had a problem.

Get a set of gaskets for your risers and pull them off. If they are leaking, you'll see signs of it inside.

Watch ebay for new old stock stuff - you'll get it a lot less than a thousand bucks, if you need items.
Thanks
Fred
1964 Barron Flatbottom with BBC Chevy
1969 Glaspar Avalon /1969 Johnson Electromatic 85
1987 Carver Mariner
1988 Cougar Kevlar 46' with triple blown 572s
http://s4.beta.photobucket.com/user/waybomb/library/
Past - 1988 2807, 1989 4207 Aft
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Topic author United States of America
Seif911
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Re: Multiple, separate problems, starting with smoke at 2500

Postby Seif911 » June 24th, 2014, 4:13 pm

Hello All,
So, once again, I have more time with my boat so...when I started the engines in the yard this spring, I definitely smell fuel and see some smoke. I ordered the carb kits and points. I am going to rebuild the carbs very shortly, change out the new points, change the plugs and check the timing. The engines seem to run great but there is something amiss. I can't wait to see in the carbs. Maybe I'll get lucky! Maybe it'll be the plugs on the bottom that Fred was talking about!
Thanks,
Steve

22' Godfrey Hurricane Fun Deck, Fiberglass hull, 175 HP, Deck boat
24' Chrysler Cruiseliner III (Lonestar), 120 HP, Aluminum Hull, Cabin, 1968
33' Carver Mariner, fiberglass hull, 520 HP, Yacht, 1977
User avatar

United States of America
waybomb
CYO Moderator
CYO Moderator
Posts: 1920
Joined: February 5th, 2013, 9:24 pm
Vessel Info: 1987 3697 Carver Mariner
1988 Cougar 46 Kevlar Vee offshore
1969 15' Glaspar / 1969 Johnson Electrmatic 85
1964 Barron Flat bottom drag boat
A couple of dinghies
Location: Saint Joseph and Trenton, MI
Has thanked: 39 times
Been thanked: 278 times

Re: Multiple, separate problems, starting with smoke at 2500

Postby waybomb » June 24th, 2014, 9:36 pm

You might also think about checking the advance mechanism under the points plate. The weights should have some tension resisiting movement to the outside, and should spring back when released. If not, the advance mechanism is messed up. A timing light would tell you this as well. If the timing isn't moving as you increase/decrease engine spped, you will have to pull the distributers and free up the weights. And while you have the cap off, the shaft should not have any wiggle room in its bushings. If it does, your dwell will be changing while running, which affects the timing. This would entail replacing the bushings or simply getting replacement electronic distributors.

Isn't it fun owning a boat?

Let us know how the carb rebuilds go. And if they are quadrajets, read up on how to plug the leaking drilling holes underneath with epoxy, and do it, even if yours do not leak.
Thanks
Fred
1964 Barron Flatbottom with BBC Chevy
1969 Glaspar Avalon /1969 Johnson Electromatic 85
1987 Carver Mariner
1988 Cougar Kevlar 46' with triple blown 572s
http://s4.beta.photobucket.com/user/waybomb/library/
Past - 1988 2807, 1989 4207 Aft
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Topic author United States of America
Seif911
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Posts: 233
Joined: April 11th, 2013, 6:46 am
Vessel Info: 1977 Carver Mariner 33'
Location: Sheboygan, WI
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Re: Multiple, separate problems, starting with smoke at 2500

Postby Seif911 » June 24th, 2014, 10:18 pm

I did check the advance last year and I think they are replacement distributors because they look brand new. I will check the tightness when I replace the points. Hopefully I will find something when I pull the carbs apart. I will let you know!
Thanks.
Thanks,
Steve

22' Godfrey Hurricane Fun Deck, Fiberglass hull, 175 HP, Deck boat
24' Chrysler Cruiseliner III (Lonestar), 120 HP, Aluminum Hull, Cabin, 1968
33' Carver Mariner, fiberglass hull, 520 HP, Yacht, 1977

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