Survey Results

[TruckerTim]

Currently under contract to purchase a 2000 450 Voyager and survey was just completed this week. Purchasing from the second owner and he's only had it 8 months. He bought it in OH and moved it to FL. Has the 480 TAMD74P motors.

A couple of issues came up and looking for input from this group.

1) Starboard engine has no hrs counter. Port does and shows 1020 hrs and the owner says they both have the same hours. Weird? Surveyor says not all that uncommon but not normal.

2) Trans oil samples show high sodium, aluminum and chromium. Analysis says high sodium is salt water, (boat is in FL) coming in from somewhere. Aluminum could be torque converter, gear and/ or vine pump. Chromium could be ball and or rolled bearings. Odd part is both sides showed almost the exact numbers of each. Both are original to the boat and, according to the owner, have never been touched. These are ZF 280A transmissions.

Thoughts?? Thanks

[km1125]

I would be shocked if you couldn't get the engine hours right from the ECU. I don't know those motors, so maybe someone else who does can weigh in. Might be worth trying to contact a local marine mechanic who might be able to scan the ECU and give you clues.

My last boat only had one "engine hours" meter, and it was assumed both engines ran similar hours. I always thought about adding a second meter but never did.

On the oil samples, any idea when the oil was last changed?? Even though a previous owner might have said it was done, don't rely on that. I just recently helped a friend out on his and changed his trans fluid. I suspect the trans fluid was never changed since new because it still had the original filter (which is supposed to be changed the first year or 100 hrs). The boat is 7 years old and has over 500hrs on the clock. If it's old oil then I would flush and fill and get a new analysis after 100 or so hours and see if there's anything concerning.

[TruckerTim]

Source of the post I would be shocked if you couldn't get the engine hours right from the ECU. I don't know those motors, so maybe someone else who does can weigh in. Might be worth trying to contact a local marine mechanic who might be able to scan the ECU and give you clues.

My last boat only had one "engine hours" meter, and it was assumed both engines ran similar hours. I always thought about adding a second meter but never did.

On the oil samples, any idea when the oil was last changed?? Even though a previous owner might have said it was done, don't rely on that. I just recently helped a friend out on his and changed his trans fluid. I suspect the trans fluid was never changed since new because it still had the original filter (which is supposed to be changed the first year or 100 hrs). The boat is 7 years old and has over 500hrs on the clock. If it's old oil then I would flush and fill and get a new analysis after 100 or so hours and see if there's anything concerning.

Thanks.
I don't think 2000's have ECU..? I believe that's what the Surveyor said....

No clue on when it was changed. The current owner has not changed it and does not know when/ if the original owner did it.

I just called the lab that tested the samples. They also said the sodium could be high due to additives from the original oil for break-in. He said even after two or three oil changes the sodium could still be in the system and giving a higher reading. Given both side have almost exactly the same reading, he would lean to that.

He suggested getting the trans cooler pressure tested to rule that out. Also change the oil, run for 100hrs or so and re test. Problem with that is I don't want to buy the boat if there maybe a problem, (or got worse) 100hrs later.

[Sgodfrey]

Hello

I have a Voyager 450 with the Cummins 6CTA engines and just completed a 3 week trip on the boat from Myrtle Beach to the Hudson. The boat did great in a variety of conditions from slow hull speed on the ICW to planning past Lady Liberty on the Hudson.

After owning the boat for 3 years I would say we are very happy, but I would also say that we have invested a lot of money in the boat to deal with the realities of a 20 plus year old boat. I underestimated those costs.

For example, we proactively replaced both transmission coolers, all the hoses, raw water pumps, aftercoolers. In some ways we went overboard, but many of the items were approaching end of life or had not been properly serviced in the past. I have been happy to have the Cummins engines and a ready supply of parts from SBMAR on the west coast. People say that the Volvo parts are more expensive and more difficult to obtain - but I don't have any first hand experience with that.

I had issues with all samples as well, but was given the advice that without a trend they are difficult to act. Certainly the sodium might be evidence of an issue with the cooler, but when the coolers fail it is my understanding that you will see oil in the water from the raw water discharge in the exhaust.

Good luck
Steve

[km1125]

I don't think 2000's have ECU..? I believe that's what the Surveyor said....

I would double-check that.

Not the first time a surveyor would be wrong or would have missed something. I thought all the 74P's were "EDC (Electronic Diesel Control)", which would mean it has an electronics module and would have a diagnostic connection. But, I could be wrong too.

[TruckerTim]

Source of the post Hello

I have a Voyager 450 with the Cummins 6CTA engines and just completed a 3 week trip on the boat from Myrtle Beach to the Hudson. The boat did great in a variety of conditions from slow hull speed on the ICW to planning past Lady Liberty on the Hudson.

After owning the boat for 3 years I would say we are very happy, but I would also say that we have invested a lot of money in the boat to deal with the realities of a 20 plus year old boat. I underestimated those costs.

For example, we proactively replaced both transmission coolers, all the hoses, raw water pumps, aftercoolers. In some ways we went overboard, but many of the items were approaching end of life or had not been properly serviced in the past. I have been happy to have the Cummins engines and a ready supply of parts from SBMAR on the west coast. People say that the Volvo parts are more expensive and more difficult to obtain - but I don't have any first hand experience with that.

I had issues with all samples as well, but was given the advice that without a trend they are difficult to act. Certainly the sodium might be evidence of an issue with the cooler, but when the coolers fail it is my understanding that you will see oil in the water from the raw water discharge in the exhaust.

Good luck
Steve

Thanks for your input, Steve. Big purchase, ( at least for me) and I need all the advice/ council I can get!

I'm prepared for the normal maintenance/ up keep, just trying to make sure it's in the best condition possible before I write that check.

[TruckerTim]

Source of the post

I don't think 2000's have ECU..? I believe that's what the Surveyor said....

I would double-check that.

Not the first time a surveyor would be wrong or would have missed something. I thought all the 74P's were "EDC (Electronic Diesel Control)", which would mean it has an electronics module and would have a diagnostic connection. But, I could be wrong too.

Thanks. I will definitely check and hopefully someone else with a 20000 Voyager will chine in. Surveyor was great and very through but could be wrong.

[bud37]

Source of the post
I'm prepared for the normal maintenance/ up keep, just trying to make sure it's in the best condition possible before I write that check.

You are wise you are doing your homework here, my advice..... join boatdiesel.com and do some snooping. These new high output, high rpm recreational diesels do not have the same life span as the old heavy frame lower rpm/HP engines. Best like you said to go in with eyes wide open.

Hopefully someone with the same combo chimes in......good luck with your purchase.

[tomschauer]

A friend of mine sold his 570-voyager last year. During the survey high copper content was found in the transmissions.
Most likely not an issue. But they came to an agreement that10k was put in an escrow account for trans repair. It will be held for 12 months or 100 hours whichever comes first. If no issues, the money goes to the seller. If there is an issue the buyer has 10k to fix it.

[TruckerTim]

Source of the post A friend of mine sold his 570-voyager last year. During the survey high copper content was found in the transmissions.
Most likely not an issue. But they came to an agreement that10k was put in an escrow account for trans repair. It will be held for 12 months or 100 hours whichever comes first. If no issues, the money goes to the seller. If there is an issue the buyer has 10k to fix it.

I like that! Thanks for sharing.